legacycentral bbs

THAWA wrote:
doesnt kyb make the oem struts we use though?

I think they make some of the newer cars stuff.....not sure about ours.....

I was out all day, no pics. The front end is*slightly* lower than it was, so is the rear. There is a curb in front of my car when i took the pic, i dont have flats.

I vainly assume that everyone has awd. sorry josh.

KYB made our stock struts.

I just swapped my springs over to the new AGX's. I stood the old front FWD GR2's up against the new front AWD AGX's, and I didn't see any difference in perch height. It was a little weird.

I wonder if the FWD front struts have the same perch height as the 92-94 front AWD struts....

Other thing I noticed was that the front right GR2 could be compressed easily, didn't offer much resistance, and didn't extend back out on it's own. I would assume this would be an example of a blown strut......correct?

The rebound stroke still had a lot of compression.

Josh - So what wheels/tires are you running?

How did you like the GR2's? I might be able to "settle" with GR2's for now.

I just want to get an idea of how the car will sit.

I'll be getting 92-94 front struts, and I don't know about the rear struts. I'll have to see what the springs will do to the rear end. The higher rear will shift weight forward slightly, and that's not exactly what I want, but I do want tire clearance.

I guess it all depends on tires. If I can find a GOOD 225/40/R17, then I'll get the 92-94 struts and probably get AGX's.

I'm only running 205/45 r16. Before the swap 215/45 r16 would be ideal but it's a little rare of a size. I'm running goodyear gs-d3's now, and have been EXTREMELY impressed with them.

I'll have to see how off my speedo is, and adjust tire size from there.

I liked the GR2's, and had no complaints. Even with the front right strut not seeming to act properly when I took it out, the car didn't handle poorly at all.

i am very happy w/the GR-2 on my car. it was a huge improvement on the rallyx course.

i also like the agx on my wagon. but i set them and never adjusted them since. but i dont race that car at all. the settings went from good handling to too rough.

THAWA: from what I know, KYB makes 3 different struts for most of our cars. The entry level one has a lifetime warranty and is an OE replacement strut, Then there are the GR-2s and the AG-Xs.

Josh, sounds like that strut is blown. And, thanks for seeing what information you can find on the struts.

Josh, a Subie mechanic running his own shop showed me the old FSMs. Subaru used to make almost a dozen (I didn't actually count them but it looked like about that many) different part numbered struts for the BC/BFs. There used to be a different PN if the Legacy was a MT or AT, a FWD or AWD, a sedan or a wagon, turbo or NA, etc. And now, the FSM has only ONE superseded PN for all of those different original PNs. And it seems that all the aftermarket struts are now manufactured to the superseded PN standards. So, it wouldn't surprise me if the FWD and AWD struts have the same perch heights.

BAC5.2: I wasn't sure about your post on the Whiteline springs with GR-2s then you mentioned using coilovers but KYB doesn't recommend using their GR-2s with coilovers. If you were referring to something else, then disregard this post.

Oh, there's one change to my above post now that I think about it. The latest Subaru FSM I was shown had the same PN for all the struts of different models except for the turbo strut. But I special ordered the turbo struts and compared them with the NA struts and they both had the exact same spring perch height. So the difference in the turbo strut is internal somewhere (and, of course, the parts man had no idea what it would be).

I thought the current part numbers also had different struts for ABS and non-ABS models...

I posted this long ago for someone else to sort out, but nobody volunteered : http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/springs/

A big difference between the original struts and having different part #'s was the internal valving....not the perch height.

To my knowledge KYB only makes the GR2's & AGX's for our cars. I've d/l their parts catalog and it only lists the GR2's and AGX's.

93Leg-c - By coilovers, I was referring to REAL coilovers, not any kind of adjustable coilover on a strut thing.

I've been considering a set of Tein Type-Flex (W/ EDFC) coilovers for some time now. It's just a matter of actually getting the funds. I'd also really like to get all STi lateral/trailing links, and aluminum LCA's. Saddly, I don't have $4k to spend on suspension goodies

BAC5.2: OK, gotcha.

Legacy777: Josh, the mechanic that used to work for Subaru but now has his own shop says that KYB makes Subaru's replacement struts. And it has a 1 year warranty, not lifetime like I earlier posted.

Also, from my experience, the perch height of the GR-2s (and others) versus the original struts' perch heights are different. If you ever run across a BC with the original front struts (the ones with the factory-installed struts and not factory replacement or aftermarket replacement struts) I'm sure the perch heights will be different by about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches. I've checked this several times on different cars and every time it's proved to be true. (Oh, and, please understand that I'm not trying to debate anything here, I'm just expressing what I have personally found.)

vrg3: I didn't take a good look at the FSM so ABS and non-ABS cars may still have different struts. However, when I call the auto parts store, they don't ask me if I have ABS or not.

I was perusing cobbtuning.com and in the Legacy/Outback section and under Suspension, the comment is made that "KYB enjoys the status as Subaru's original equipment strut manufacturer." If I read that correctly, it seems to indicate that OEM struts on Subys are made by KYB. It doesn't say how long KYB has been making struts for the Legacys though.

since 90

Now that's a long-term contract.

i think KYB made the loyale stuff too.

They did. i have a buddy that has gr2's on his loyal.

What I'm puzzled about is why did KYB make the replacement struts with higher perches when they build performance-oriented parts. Couldn't they have built the strut with the original perch height and make another one (like the one in production now) higher for Outbacks and those who wanted to raise their cars? There's probably a perfectly logical answer to that question but I just haven't researched it.

Hmmm, I guess this is getting off-topic. . .

controling production costs and keeping the production line as simple as possible would be my guess.

After seeing that the front 92-94 AWD struts didn't raise my height when compared to my front 90-91 FWD struts, yeah I'd say they just used the same shell and such....

I've been wondering if KYB (or any other aftermarket strut mfr for that matter) makes GR-2s to different specs for, let's say, the Japanese or Australian market? I always see or hear KYB's being made to SOA (Subaru of America) specs. So, is there a SOJ (Subaru of Japan) or just the FHI specs for aftermarket struts?

I've been reading all this information about the interchangeability of the struts between 1990-92 MY and 1992-94. I have a 1990 AWD sedan model. I've priced out the struts and like everybody says - the rears for the 1990-91 MY are significantly higher in price than the 1992-94 MY. I am looking to just replace the struts, using stock springs that are on there now. I just wanted to understand all this stuff about spring perch height on the rear struts. I don't want to pay almost twice as much for the rears. If I get 1992 MY AWD specific struts for the rear, will they work fine on my 1990 MY AWD car? Would the rear of the car be same height-wise, or will it be lower or higher? I can re-use my 1990 MY upper spring perches for the front and the rear? What would be the most cost-effective combination of front/rear struts? I am looking at GR-2s by the way. Can somebody please verify this for me. Thanks a lot.

You can use the 92-94 stuff. It will alter ride height slightly. As to how much, I don't know....some people have experienced more.

Going from 90-91 GR2 FWD front & rear struts to 92-94 AGX AWD front & rear struts, it raised my overall height by .25 inches.

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swa ... suspension

Keep in mind I have a lowered suspension and did go from FWD to AWD....so your numbers will more then likely not be the same.

I'm going to start this up again for more info. Did anyone ever figure out conclusively if the FWD perch heights are the same as the AWD? I want to buy some GR2s for my car. Right now with the old stock suspension the front sits a good 1.5-2 inches higher than the rear, and the rear likes to scrape if I hit a bump hard. I want to bring the rear up to the same level as the front using the struts, and then put lowering springs in to have it low and even all around.

At this point I'm thinking I need the front struts for the 90-91 and the rear struts for the 92-94. But if the FWD perches are different then it may not work.