legacycentral bbs

i dont think that your nessiarly way off just that is the right idea with the wrong part. headers help with turbo cars by pusling the exhaust at the most effecent level to spin the turbo elimiating the turbo as an restriction. the only problem that would cause funky boost situations are stainless headers or others made of heat disapating metals. turbo spool has alot to do with heat in the pipe. if the header looses its tempreature(sp) than spool would be effected. this problem can be remidied by hpc hipercoat extreme which lowers the exterior temp of the pipe getting rid of the wory for equal length headers heating up the oil filter and therefore the oil temp and it keeps the temps inside the pipes as high as posible so that spool is better

Well the thing is that as you start to modify your motor with a bigger turbo and larger TBE the amount of air you're trying to push into the motor, which in turn will be coming out the exhaust, increases dramatically. This is where larger headers come into play. If you're pushing a bunch of air and the header can't flow enough then it will hurt performance. Open it up and you'll see an improvement.

You're right though that you want a big pressure drop across the turbo. That is why a TBE is so important. On the stock turbo I don't think headers would offer much gains, if any at all. But once you are modded and have a big turbo it can really help.

That's my take on it anyways.

jake15 wrote:equal length headers make it sound kinda honda-ish.

They do not make the car sound like a honda, more like a Porsche.

I think I may have gained a bit of power up top with the equall length, as well as loosing probably 15 to 20 pounds off the nose. Mine rattle however. I went to GPMoto, and had Sean weld up the slipjoints for me.

Another downside to them, is they hang down pretty low. I have to make a special skidplate for my car, and I might just put the stock header back in because of it.

Uh oh... how bad of a clearance problem are we talking Kelly? Thats a big consideration for me, we have to see if someone knows of some headers without that problem.

I see what you're saying, yes, headers would probably be a waste until I went with a larger turbo like the 16g anyway.... correct? In that case, I'll wait until I'm sure of which header would be the best choice - and until I can afford both at the same time. I'll make it one upgrade, and if I can find equal length for a reasonable price with hipercoat then I'll do that.

no headers come with hipercoat. if you lucky youll find osme with jet hot. still coating but not as good. hipercoat costs about 250 for headers and you have to send them to oklahoma to get them coated.

if i remeber corectly kellys car is pretty low. unless your car is droped more than 2 inches i dont think its a problem. that and if you do scrape them just be a little more careful. i already do this by nature because my front mount is a touch lower than the stock skid plate so i got thorugh all driveways sideways.

i also see that your gonna be in nevada soon so clearence should be the least of your wories.

azn2nr wrote:
if i remeber corectly kellys car is pretty low.

Not at the moment


Ive never scraped the headers on anything, even big speedbumps at 65MPH

Im just sayin they interfere with a tight fitting skidplate. Im thinking there lower about 3/4" than the front center jack point. (not that much, but if your skidplates flat, it is) I have the GPMoto header. I havnt used any other manufactures.

OK thats not bad. My car's stock height, the only thing even close to being a clearance problem is my downpipe flange, but I think a skidplate would still fit over it.

My friend's got a chevy 350 in his Jeep, and his front tires hit his headers if he turns too sharp. Glad we don't have that problem

My FMIC has topside routing and is located completely above the bottom of the radiator and condenser. Quite a bit of rigging to get that bitch in. Got room for puller fans behind it, too. Definately didn't want any clearance problems with that - learned my lesson when I had bottom-side FMIC routing for my old turbo Saturn and couldn't even drive the bitch onto certain kinds of lifts as hoses would get caught on the way.

So anyway, isn't Jet Hot comparable to HiPerCoat, or is one more preferrable than the other? I know I'd rather have a coating than header wrap, especially with the headers on the bottom (where they would become a sponge for splashed puddle water and rust through in no time). Anyway, yes I know headers don't usually come coated, that's OK.

So - what are our real options for headers then, and which headers are everyone with aftermarket ones using? Can we pretty much assume that any header made for a turbo impreza will bolt right up to the Legacy - or just certain years? I know the 16g turbo from the WRX is supposed to bolt in, so perhaps any WRX that came with the 16g? (which years would that be?)

And yes where I'm going in NV, clearance will be less of a problem - for normal driving. But the way I plan to drive around on my land I think I might even want to invest in a skidplate... so its definately a consideration. Unregulated driving rules.

So... who's got headers? Which ones? How much did they cost? Equal length? Coated, with what? Originally designed for which car? Bolt-in for our cars, or how much work were they to modify? Got a skidplate fitting over them with no problems? (and for that matter, which skidplate?)

I ask a lot of questions

i dont have headers at the present but they are in the mail. i bought the ebay ones along with their tbe. it was a buy it now deal for 525 shiped. i dont know what the quality of the headers are but the tbe is real nice. a nasioc member has one and let me check his out before i bought mine.

jet hot is a good coating no doubt about it but it does have a tendencay to flake off if you get them too hot. its rated at 2000 degrees and alot of people use it. hipercoat extreme is rated higher than 2000 degrees and is a thicker coating and more durable but also more expensive then jet hot. more drag F1 and nascar teams use hipercoat extreme than jet hot.

i wont be putting my headers in when they get here because i still need to save up for the coating which i also need to get for my ic pipes. that and im also building a ihi twist and a garret twist while their off the car.

i belive the general consensus is that any wrx product will fit or can be made to fit. there is no such thing as designed for bolt on for our cars. everyting is either universal or for a wrx that just happens to fit or is modded to fit.

i dont have a skid plate any more because i have a fmic. personaly i dont see the use of one mostly because im gonna take the car up dirt roads where my ic could catch rocks which wories me more than scraping some headers. if you really want one just go to a sheet metal place and have them cut you a large piece, take it home and bolt it up home depot style.

All headers, and downpipes for WRX fit the Legacy.

In fact the stock WRX header, is identical to the Legacy, except for an extra O2 bung.

even the newer models? Obviously not the STi, of course.... right? How about that. Good to know!

So Jason - how much did the 16g run you and where'd you get yours, new or used/rebuilt? And is your FMIC really that exposed? Mine is more or less protected by the front fascia and grill (which, granted, is not in place at the moment) - I hadn't really considered the possibility of catching rocks in it, that would not be good.

Hmm you're right, a skidplate would probably not need too many custom bends to cover the underside of our cars.

rallitektech wrote:All headers, and downpipes for WRX fit the Legacy.

In fact the stock WRX header, is identical to the Legacy, except for an extra O2 bung.

Correction: All EJ series motors are the same, as far as exhaust is concerned. All series of heads, all different years, NA or Turbo.

Thank you Subaru.

woohoo!

my fmic isnt really exposed that bad. its down below the stock skid plate which had to be banged back in order to fit the ic. the bumper cover hangs lower than the ic but only by a centimeter.

my 16g ran me 3 bills installed. im trying to offset the cost buy selling the 39 in the trunk. it was used off of a ej20g 95wrx. my buddy has a hook up for motors for dirt cheap, he bought the motor to use the intake and fuel system sold teh short block to a kid that spun a rod bearing in his wrx. the heads may go to me to be bench built. and as can be asumed the 16 g went to me. it wasnt used verry much and had zero shaft play.

Hmm - when I get out to Nevada, Jason, can I look you up to get your buddy to sell me some cheap Subaru engines to play with? I've got tons of room out there and thats exactly what I intend to do with it.....

Ouch on the 16g. I found some place that sells 'em rebuilt out of the UK, from the 94 wrx (with the elbow, I think it was 94 that had the elbow) for around $500 US or so. I was planning to drop about the same on a set of headers, and then send 'em both off to have them coated, and install them both at once.

Ouch on the 16G? $300 installed is a great price!

i dont know how cheap he will resale motors for but i can ask him next time i see him.

sorry if my new age lingo got you confused on exactaly how much my turbo cost but matt got it, only 300 dollars.

back on the note of headers mine got here today. ssautochrome ebay kind. the tag on the bottom of the runners say xs performance. they were a steal for a full engine back including headers uppipe and a tbe for half the cost of a new tbe or brand name fame. plus it already has a o2 bung in the correct spot so i dont have to reweld them. the headers need to be coated before they go in as they are stainless and will disapate heat a little too fast. it will probaly be a few months before i get them in becasue of it (no money) but the tbe will be in by next week.

oh lol 300... thats different from 3 grand. I musta read that wrong.

Sounds like a hell of a deal on those headers and turbo-back... nice. I can't wait to get into these mods...

rallitektech wrote:Correction: All EJ series motors are the same, as far as exhaust is concerned. All series of heads, all different years, NA or Turbo.

Thank you Subaru.

That is not true. Some EJ heads have single port exhaust outlets and others are dual port. The legacy SS, WRX, and STi are all dual port and their stock exhaust manifolds are interchangeable but slightly different in inner diameter. Also a manifold/uppipe from a current JDM STi with twinscroll wouldn't be a good match for a non twinscroll turbo.

I just finished up a group buy on NASIOC on QTP header/uppipe combos. I'm sorry you guys missed it. They're 4-2-1 equal length stainless like the GP Moto, then Jet Hot 2000 coated inside and out. An excellent piece that's on the fastest stock turbo WRX in the USA, and has shown amazing hp and torque gains on several customer cars.

BAC5.2 wrote:IThe GPMoto headers are sweet, but at $1G, they are WAY out of the price range.

The GP Moto is only 675 and the QTP with Jet Hot 2000 is 849.99.

-Mike

The only single port heads are the second and third series of the NA 2.2. To add to this though, the new 2.5 (at least in the legacy and outback) has a different port design aswell, it's similar to the first ez30 design (which has changed in 05).

The twin scroll exhaust wouldn't fit on most cars anyway nevermind the turbo its trying to spin.