I think I'm done....

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:33 pm

I'm more worried about blowing the engine and tranny. I'm not worried about anything else, just the stuff that will pretty much force me to build her up.

13k isn't my price range. 13k is the minimum of how much the Legacy would cost to get it up to my spec. I don't have a problem financing a new car, but I want a new car, not a used car. Otherwise, I would just buy an old Miata and drive that. That's not going to be OK with me though, because that's yet another breakage liability.

With a new car, you can budget car payments and have a financial plan. With a used car, you need to dip into your "rainy day fund" when shit breaks, and you can't budget for unexpected car trouble, without putting yourself out somewhere else.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:29 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:With a new car, you can budget car payments and have a financial plan. With a used car, you need to dip into your "rainy day fund" when shit breaks, and you can't budget for unexpected car trouble, without putting yourself out somewhere else.

Ahhh, quite untrue. Take whatever you think you are going to be paying for that STi or LGT + insurance. Cut it in half. Buy an inexpensive daily driver and make the SS your funtime car. Put away half of the money you were plannin on spending on a new car payment & costs every month. Have it taken out of your check or something so you never see it. Next time you need to fix something small on your car within a couple of months, there will be thousands of dollars in the bank from putting away the extra money (which is still only half of what you would have been paying).

Having a new car is more an appearence issue than anything else, IMO. Buying a used car is not a bad thing, if you know what you are doing. And you do. I would recommend a GC, GG or really an EJ engined car, maybe a high mileage low cost GD (I don't think you'd really be into the EA81's or EA82's). Pimp the mess out of it, make it comfortable: tint, sound sytem, crushed velvet carpet

. Then you have all the time and money to do whatever your heart desires with the SS.

And go ahead and bump your boost down a little bit and get the body stuff fixed. It's not that bad, just drop the money to get it done right. If you lived here I could get you hooked up. Well, get EM or drop the boost for now. You know your hp numbers are going to ramp up quite dramatically with proper management. I personally would get a very inexpensive reliable daily driver and get the SS interior stripped down and seam welded. Then braced in everyway that would fly under the radar for inspection. Get engine management and slowly do the other things you eventually want to do with it. Then one day you will notice you have over $6k in your take care of beater fund and go get a tranny. The beauty of a second car is that there are no tight schedules on working on your baby.

I would take the SS for just the sleeper factor if nothing else. I love my car heaps, I just want it to be a teeny bit faster so these dang stupid slow cars don't think they are actually hanging with me if I don't blow their doors away so hard they weep.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:48 pm

William, I think you are missing the point.

I do not want to buy a car that I need to pimp out in order for it to be up to my standards, performance wise. I want to be able to buy a car, and have it be acceptable to me in stock form, and leave the Pimping to the Legacy. I don't need another car to steal the Legacy's pimping thunder. A GC would, because it would only be a matter of time before I wanted to swap my whole shit into it. I will NEVER get the performance I am accustomed to from a GC without swapping. Never. Even turbo 2.5's were putting out less power than I was on the dyno day (by a significant amount). Plus, being a full time student with a full time job, I rarely have time to work on my own car anymore. So I could buy a GC in hopes of "pimping it out" but it would just sit, another unfinished project, victim to the crime of lack of time.

I've done all of the "cheap" mods, and it's getting to the super-expensive point, and it STILL will not be as reliable as it was stock, or as a stock new car would be.

I don't care about being a sleeper. I don't often street race, I just enjoy my car for myself. So looking slow to someone, to entice a street race, is not my bag. The car is only a sleeper when it's parked in a spot. Start it up, accelerate, decelerate, drive it correctly, even idle, and you lose ALL sleeper status. I mean, shit, you can see the 3" pipe under the car.

I feel like some of you think the Legacy will be totally gone if I get a new car, or that I will forget about it. That's far from the truth. I just can't afford to fuck around with my daily driver anymore, and I can't stand the idea of driving a bucket of bolts as a daily while the "fun car" sits at home. If I saved $6 grand while driving the STi, there is a good chance it would go to the Legacy, instead of if I had a GC, the money would probably end up going into that.

dwreck30 · Post by **dwreck30** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:12 pm

Get the Sti. I know if I had $13K for a down payment on on one I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to have a new car, and although it could be done I don't want to put myself into the position of living paycheck to paycheck. So if your budget allows you to afford a new STi then do it.

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm

its threads like this that make me pretty sure im going to leave my car bone stock, aside from a TMIC.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:08 pm

Ehh, I think we are both misunderstanding each other. I like having an everyday car that is comfortable for driving any length of time and gets good gas mileage. Sound system, softer suspension, very chill, not worried about hp/weight ratio, just some nice gas mileage. A 5-speed is all I need to have fun in a car. Beating a 110 hp car with my 73 hp 5-speed is pretty dang fun and entertaining... regardless

.

You save massive amounts of money and you can make the Legacy exactly the way you like it while it sits every now and then as you keep modding it. When you are done, (and you have done it correctly) the Legacy can be every bit as reliable as a new car for a daily. I really don't understand what the big fear is, if you need to turn the boost down, turn it down, if you need to change something to do it right, do that - especially if you have the cash. Nothing will blow up on the car if tuned and treated properly.

Paying $300-$400+ every single month for a car, just to drive it is never better than driving a car that might need those $$$ kind of repairs a couple of times a year at most, IMHO.

You don't want to drop $6k on the tranny, but you are willing to irreparably lose $6k when you drive the car off the stinkin lot?? Sorry, lots of opinion coming through. What I feel is by no means "right". I just can't stand the idea of buying a new car. And unfortunately you are going to mod something on the car... don't be unrealistic. And then the dealer can make your life hades if they can for any warranty repair if they choose to be like that. And don't forget the extra $3k or so that financing the car is going to cost you over the life of the loan, and that's being generous.

And sleeper is much more than street races. I rarely if ever get anyone that wants to race me. Completely not the point. Me and a Black on black and tinted, badgeless E30 3 series were ummm.... "caravaning" on the highway, I think he confused it for the autobahn. Well, there was a cop patrolling the area. Who do you think he pulled over? Uhh, yeah, he probably never even looked at my car twice. In fact, he lane changed in front of me to pull the bmw over. And thieves see a nice fresh STi even in bone stock form and see a veritable paradise of parts to steal. I'm sure you've seen all the "My STi was stolen and stripped" stories on NASIOC. No one can see my stereo, no one assumes I have one, they only see a true grocery getter. They just assume the 4.5" tip is not backed by a full 3" SS exhaust. No one bothers the car.

And I pay like $80 a month for 3 cars, and I am still on "high risk" insurance.... even though I have never had more than 4 points on my license at any time.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:09 am

FWIW, i entirely agree with brat.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:26 am

So do I. New car smell makes me sick. Then there's the added insurance and all the cleaning products to take better care of it, and it will still need maintenance items like tires, brakes, oil changes, etc. But I can understand the peace of mind. Also keep in mind that when my engine blew it was at a 1/4 million, was beat on, and had been consuming oil that would make a 2-stroke cringe for the last week before it went. Ultimately it needed a single valve, but I get your point that having your vehicle down sucks. Still got me home, though.

When I get a second car I'm thinking of a boat so I won't be tempted to do anything with it. Unless I could find a manual XT or '83/4 hardtop with no or almost no rust.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:34 am

I've been stranded twice in the Legacy in the 12 months I've owned it.

I could buy a beater and build the Legacy how I want to, but I don't want to live my life beater to beater.

I feel a new car will motivate me further to succeed in life, and become something. I lack the ability to listen to people preach, and lack the ability to blindly believe, that everything will be OK if I ride along on rainbow farts.

I can fix my car problems in the short term by buying beater after hopeless beater, dreaming of a day that the Legacy will be done. Or I can grab the bull by the balls, get a new car, take on some responsibility, and take advantage of my financial situation now. I make a decent amount of money, and I can afford the car.

I am fully aware of the costs of purchasing a new vehicle, and I am OK with that. I worked in the car industry and I am aware of how sales situations go down, and how to get what I want when I want it, how I want it.

I would build a GC8 STi if I wanted a GC8 STi, but I don't. I like the GD. I like the newness. I like the fact that I won't have to crawl on the ground in the middle of the freezing ass cold ass night, trying to reattach a coolant hose on a glowing turbo, then taking 6 hours to go 5 miles, limping her home.

J-MoNeY · Post by **J-MoNeY** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:31 am

You mentioned that a lot of people respect the Legacy. That's odd, dude. I get an RARE complement from people (primarily my friends) on how my car looks. Although I'm not after a head turning bling mobile, it would be nice to get a little reckognition for the time and effort I have put into the car from the local car community.

Maybe my problem lies in that I am to busy to go anywhere to meet with these people. Anywho, turn the boost down, keep it clean and save your money.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:38 am

I get a compliment on the CAR a day, not the looks, just the car in general. Some guy was talking to me for like 5 minutes at a long red light at a major intersection.

People try to race me all the time too. Not like once a week, but like once everytime I drive 10 miles or more. It's kinda annoying.

J-MoNeY · Post by **J-MoNeY** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:43 am

That's better then my no races ever streak. Since I bought the car NO ONE has ever tried to race me. You'd think that the full atmo. BOV would attract some attention, but no.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:49 am

i just got a email form deadbolt. to convert your 16 to an 18 would only be about 300 or so. just some food for thought

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:40 am

When I called Jerry a few months ago, to convert my 16G to an 18G, with a full rebuild, and a monster port and coating, it was in the 800 range.

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:45 am

I'll end that streak and race you Justin.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:22 am

If I had the money to buy a new car I'd invest it instead. I spend too much as it is. Actually, if I subtract the money I spent on unnecessary upgrades this car is dirt cheap for the miles I put on, even factoring in the bodywork. Too bad I couldn't just leave well enough alone.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:20 am

Remember, financing. Not buying flat out. I won't be walking to the dealership with 30 grand in a breifcase. I'll be walking in with a check for 5 or 6k and financing the rest.

J-MoNeY · Post by **J-MoNeY** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:36 am

dzx wrote:I'll end that streak and race you Justin.

It's go time, hippy boy!

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:44 pm

I know. Financing costs even more (though with the low rates most offer now, it's not too bad). What I meant was that if I had an extra $500 a month I'd be putting it into my 401K and house-buying fund. Just clarifying, not trying to argue, different strokes is all. Not that I can blame you for being interested in an STI.

Steve

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:34 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:I can fix my car problems in the short term by buying beater after hopeless beater, dreaming of a day that the Legacy will be done. Or I can grab the bull by the balls, get a new car, take on some responsibility, and take advantage of my financial situation now. I make a decent amount of money, and I can afford the car.

I am fully aware of the costs of purchasing a new vehicle, and I am OK with that.

I have absolutely no problem if you want to buy a new car. Just don't give flawed reasoning on it. I'll want to try and correct the flaws

. Taking advantage of your financial situation now involves what Steve brought out, not pissing money away into a rapidly depreciating piece of planned obsolesence machinery. On the other hand, if you put that extra $400+ a month that you would be saving into the Legacy, it would be done awfully quick.

BAC5.2 wrote:I like the GD. I like the newness. I like the fact that I won't have to crawl on the ground in the middle of the freezing ass cold ass night, trying to reattach a coolant hose on a glowing turbo, then taking 6 hours to go 5 miles, limping her home.

If you screw around with any car, that is a possibility. Did this happen to your Legacy before or after you had started modding it? Nevertheless, even new cars break down and need all kinds of things fixed and worked out... the only difference is that you call someone, they come get it, and it is covered under warranty. Having an empty pocket to look at is not comfort enough to have this kind of service, IMHO. A used car will have most of these issues resolved. Then all you have is wear items that will need to be replaced eventually, just like any car that comes out of warranty. Oh, and get AAA - its a heck of lot cheaper than a warranty plan on a $30,000 car.

If you want to look like you are doing something in life there are tons of cars that don't require the investment or money loss as a brand new car. On $28k with $6k down and 2.9% interest (not likely for someone young) for a 60 month loan will cost you $400 on the nose per month. Many other cars make it look like you are doing well in life.

Late 80's Jaguar Vander Plas - $3-5k
1998 Audi A4 1.8t - $6-8k
1995 BMW 530i - $6-8k
1997 Mercedes E320 - $7-10k

Tons of cars that you have to look long and hard to tell whether they are the brand new ones or a couple of years old. They all look like real good shined up. And a couple of them really hustle.

And a beater car does not mean one that breaks down... or needs to be replaced. A nice 90's Impreza with low miles and a 2.2L would last forever, and you can do all the work if you want to. Shoot, a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord, lots of stuff can be had that will last forever. And they hardly lose any value. At the very least, buy a 1 year old STi still sitting on the lot or one that lost its new car status somehow. Anything to avoid that "drive off the lot" hit in value.

Please do whatever the heck you feel like doing, I'm not trying to change your choices. That is completely fine. But it isn't financially advantageous, and it isn't more reliable than a used car. And it takes more responsibility to save your money than be locked in a long term loan. And I would never want to be motivated to work just to pay off some debts I didn't need in the first place.

Ok, I'm done.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:45 pm

1995 BMW 530i - $6-8k

STAY AWAY

these had a block that would deteriorate from us gas.

In fact, theres a reason all those cars you listed are so cheap.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:50 pm

Haha, I'm well aware

. But they have the looks if thats what someone wants.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:16 am

It's not just the look that I want. I am interested in buying an STi for the almost the exact reasons that Kelley started Perfection.

It's not about how people view me in the car. It's not about how cool I look sitting in traffic. It's not about the compliments I get, or the cars I can beat. It's about the thrill of the ride. It's about the feeling of serenity and oneness when your carving the perfect turn. The feeling of chaotic control. The feeling you get, throwing down everything you can after the apex, and that feeling of the sun gleaming, tires pulling, and you pushing yourself at 11/10ths. That's what it's all about. That's why I am building the Legacy. That's why I want the STi. Sure it also looks good, and gets compliments, but that isn't the main reason I want it. The Legacy provides me with that feeling of blissful chaos, but there is always that seed of doubt, that thought of "what's gonna break next?"

I am fully aware of all costs of financing, and the depreciation, and all of that. But it's something I want. I can afford it, and I'm willing to take the responsibility.

I see your points, and I appreciate the input, but I think in the end, I'm gonna try to see what I can do by way of getting an STi. I don't see anything wrong with simply wanting more.

Plus, having 2 cars, eventually having a combined 600whp, would be pretty sweet. Espically when the Legacy is the faster of the two.

Oh, and what the hell is under Steve's and my names?

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:29 am

You can have fun in any well maintained, decently designed car. I have a blast in my mum's camry, albeit at lower speeds.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:51 am

*sigh*

I guess the proof is in the pudding. Drive an STi and you'll know what I'm talking about, and why I want one. Or maybe not, maybe the car isn't your type. Maybe some of you won't appreciate or see what I see.

Art could have bought an older car and swapped, or a 98 BMW, or an older benz. But he didn't. He got an STi, and I'm sure he got one for the same reasons that I want mine.

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I think I'm done....