legacycentral bbs

good call. I hadn't read the specifics on how the scanner works when I posted. his laptop definately boots from cd and has a parallel port. I went to radio shack and got a db25 connector and housing, and some tiny insulated alligator clips, and my brother is going to bring his laptop and a few feet of cat5 for wiring

used vrg3's scantool on the car today. at first the readings were wacky and obviously incorrect. I severely cleaned the grounds for the coil as they looked suspect. also cleaned a couple smaller ground wires in various places like strut towers, near starter, etc. the program then started giving readings that seemed accurate.. the car was off as the time as it will not run but I did start it to get these readings to show up./

results are as follows:

ROM ID: 70.32.24 (90-91 4EAT)
system voltage: 12.00 volts
coolant temp.: 80.6 F (car had not been warmed up)
ignition timing: 6 BTDC and then 10 BTDC
airflow signal: 0.32v and then 0.28v
load: 94
TPS signal: 4.78v closed 0.94v WOT
injector pulse width: 8.192ms
IAC valve duty cycle: 56.8%
O2 sensor: 0.60v
fuel trim: 0%
timing correction: 0
barometric pressure: 744 torr

binary parameters:

ignition switch: on
automatic transmission mode: on
test mode: off
read memory mode: off
neutral switch: off
park switch: on
cali. mode: on
idle switch: on
A/C switch: on (I believe it was off)
A/C relay: off
Radiator fan: off
fuel pump: off
canister purge valve: off
pinging detected: on


can someone who knows what these values should be verify them for me? I can go back tomorrow and do more testing with or without laptop if needed

Hmm, at first glance those numbers all seem okay, except for system voltage. You really should be seeing more than 13 volts at idle. Could this be an alternator problem?

Were you still feathering the throttle to keep the engine running at this point?

If the battery is decently charged (check system voltage with the engine not running to check this), you might try disconnecting the harness connector from the alternator to see if the engine runs any better. Don't do this too long, though; the battery can't run the engine for more than maybe 20 or 30 minutes of mixed driving before it gets too discharged.

the car will not run long enough to drive. it won't really even run long enough for the laptop to reboot (even in dos...)

I believe the system voltage is a number taken while the key was simply in the "on" position but maybe I am wrong about this... the real problem is that the car won't really run long enough for me to do anything and I don't really have anyone to help me

feathering the throttle won't really keep the car going very long anymore.. I mean.. it's "going" but it's not really running per-say.. hard to explain.

once in a while the car will start up and run perfectly for about three to five to maybe ten seconds and then just shut off, but for the most part the starter catches and the motor starts but then dies, without really even "running" for very long

sorry if my posts are unclear! I can try to explain anything more in-depth if it would help anyone help me

(why did the checkmark in the box next to this thread turn red in the forum list?)

will try disconnecting alternator though

Oh, okay, 12.0v is not too bad with the engine off and accessories on.

Hey, wait a sec... 0.3ish volts for the MAF sensor? That's lower than it should be. The FSM specifies 0.8 to 1.2 volts at idle. Can you check at the black wire coming off the sensor itself?

Maybe you need to clean or replace the MAF sensor...

I've suspected MAF sensor since the beginning... since it _is_ what I unplugged and then plugged back in to get the car working for a day (along with TPS, so I wasn't sure which, but suspected MAF most)

how would I go about cleaning it? would a used one be okay to use for a replacement? I've spent my whole bank account plus more getting this car roadworthy and it's really bringing me down

Spray it out gently with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. You can see the sensing elements when you look straight into it; you want to get all the grease and grim off of these.

A used sensor would be fine if it's known-good. You may want to clean it out before installing it too.

Most Subarus sold in the 90s have the same MAF sensor, so you may want to see if you can cajole someone else with a Subie to let you borrow their sensor for a couple hours.

what about that dude's 99?

What dude's 99?

If it's a 99 Legacy, I think it might be the same. You can just look at the sticker; the part number you're looking for is 22680AA160 (just like on your sensor).

I was referring to my friend's 99 legacy wagon with ej22 that I tried to use the coil from (coil connector was different)


last night I got non-chlorinated brake cleaner and liberally sprayed the inside of the MAF with it to get all the dirt and grime and shit out, but the car still does the same thing.

I'll see if I can get ahold of homeboy and borrow his MAF

Oh. Yeah, I think that car should have the same sensor. Like I said, check the part number stickers to be sure.

I went back to the car again and tried pulling the codes for shits and giggles... got codes 12, 23, and 31

12 is starter switch trouble code, and the contents of diagnosis are abnormal signal emitted from starter switch and apparently the "fail-safe" operation is to turn the starter signal switch off, which might be the reason the car will start and run fine but then shut off?

23 is the MAF

31 is TPS

any ideas from here?

guy with MAF is out of town for a week

Some of those codes may be old.

Code 12 might make the car hard or impossible to start, but it shouldn't keep it from running if it does start.

When the engine does run, is the Check Engine light illuminated?

Do you have an address there where someone could mail you a MAF sensor?

CEL is not on when car is running. codes I don't think are old, remember, as before it was blinking steadily which you said meant there were no codes?

I definately have several addresses where a MAF could be sent

Hmm. And the codes were clear since after you ran with the MAF unplugged?

PM me an address.

I got the MAF sensor today, and installed it, but the car did the exact same thing...

I got in and turned the key to start it, and the car started right up and ran like a dream for 10 or 15 seconds then died suddenly

trying to start the car again yields some chugging and lurching that makes it seem like the engine is trying to run but is having difficulty

should I find a cliff and a brick for the gas pedal? temp. inspection ran out july 28 and the car hasn't even been running since that day so I can't get it inspected.... and it's been so long that we don't even have time to make the cross country trip anymore as it would be just us driving there and back with no real having fun in between..

in short, the whole thing is bringing me down, and I'm open to anyone's suggestions

oh, I unhooked the battery cable and am leaving it like that for an hour or so to hopefully clear those old codes out? is that proper procedure (I'll go search anyway)