legacycentral bbs

Or a Legacy that isn't a turbo...

ZING!!!

heh heh

I miss my stomp-o-matic. That thing could really haul some ass when it wasn't broken. I could hang with a stock pre-current style Civic SI. All I had was a K&N. I'd stomp it into power mode, it would go (whether or not it liked it).

What the hell am I saying? It was constantly broken from drag racing. Finding, let alone paying for, a replacent slushbox was ALMOST as tough as putting it in. I invented new ways to curse while doing these things. And the new one didn't really hold up either. 15k later and it was starting to slip. I'm not absolutely sure it would've held up even if I drove it like old granny fanny.

I'm sooooooo happy with my 5MT. Yeah, rush hour gridlock sucks with my formerly broken hip/pelvis, but I hope to never own another poop-o-matic. I haven't been to the track with the '94 yet, but I've prety much schooled everything I've come across on the street. Maybe because they're never expecting it. We'll see once I upgrade the exhaust. IMHO, it seems faster and more responsive.

But as far as what's better? 5MT all the way. Hands down. Longevity, reliability, and strength are all factors. I'd much rather have to replace a clutch then an A/T. At least I'd have the option to go with a stage 1 or 2 or maybe even a stage 3 clutch. What can you do with an A/T yourself besides rip it out and maybe have a tranny shop beef it up for a whole lotta $$$? IMHO driving stick will help you become a better driver, too.

But if all you're concerned about is winning one race, or maybe a handful of them, then the slip-o-matic may not be a too bad of an idea. Run race gas and some nitrous also. Don't forget the Tenzo-R stickers and solid rocket fuel boosters bolted to the quarters too.

dzx wrote:Mine was an automatic when i got it and it was definately a lot faster when it became a manual but that might also have had something to do with the gear ratio's changing.

It most definately was the gear ratios. In a straight line with 6 psi I'm faster than a stock tranny turbo with normal boost levels.

Richard wrote:I miss my stomp-o-matic. That thing could really haul some ass when it wasn't broken. I could hang with a stock pre-current style Civic SI. All I had was a K&N. I'd stomp it into power mode, it would go (whether or not it liked it).

What the hell am I saying? It was constantly broken from drag racing. Finding, let alone paying for, a replacent slushbox was ALMOST as tough as putting it in. I invented new ways to curse while doing these things. And the new one didn't really hold up either. 15k later and it was starting to slip. I'm not absolutely sure it would've held up even if I drove it like old granny fanny.

I'm sooooooo happy with my 5MT. Yeah, rush hour gridlock sucks with my formerly broken hip/pelvis, but I hope to never own another poop-o-matic. I haven't been to the track with the '94 yet, but I've prety much schooled everything I've come across on the street. Maybe because they're never expecting it. We'll see once I upgrade the exhaust. IMHO, it seems faster and more responsive.

But as far as what's better? 5MT all the way. Hands down. Longevity, reliability, and strength are all factors. I'd much rather have to replace a clutch then an A/T. At least I'd have the option to go with a stage 1 or 2 or maybe even a stage 3 clutch. What can you do with an A/T yourself besides rip it out and maybe have a tranny shop beef it up for a whole lotta $$$? IMHO driving stick will help you become a better driver, too.

But if all you're concerned about is winning one race, or maybe a handful of them, then the slip-o-matic may not be a too bad of an idea. Run race gas and some nitrous also. Don't forget the Tenzo-R stickers and solid rocket fuel boosters bolted to the quarters too.

Sounds like someone never learned how to driven an automatic .

4eat's can be just as reliable, and are stronger in many aspects. Longevity isn't their strong side though. There are tons of 200k+ 5mt's still in decent condition, but there are much less 200k+ 4eat's in decent condition.

Upgrading a 4eat is not hard at all. In many cases it's easier. Especially if you are changing the valve body or upgrading it yourself. Hell you can do that with the tranny still in the car. Can you change anything in a 5mt without removing the tranny? Only the center diff, but you can do that in an auto too. A new torque converter is just as easy. Clutchpacks are super easy aswell. If you can make a jigsaw puzzle, you can build a 4eat.

Driving a manual does make you more aware of balance and transitions, but it's just as easy to be smooth with an automatic.

If I were just drag racing, I'd probably use an automatic. It's consistent, and you can launch on boost.

Anything else, and I'd rather use a manual. So much less going on, and nothing internal to wear out if you drive it properly. I also like the fact that the only REAL wear item with a manual, takes 4 hours to replace and doesn't cost you that much if you know where to go.

I'm also intimately familiar with the way Subaru Manual Transmissions work, and I like that I know exactly what is happening in the tranny, whenver I am in my car.

Plus, dog-boxes make you cool, and have the ability to shift just as fast as an automatic. You can simply lift and pull/push. No clutch needed. Or you can flat-shift the shit out of it.

+1 dzx

When I went from my '90 L 4EAT to my '93 L 5MT, there was a big difference in giddyup. Probsbly had a lot to do with the final drive.

If you ask me, an automatic transmission is the easiest and most effective way to ruin a perfectly good car.

Was your L a FWD? Otherwise the ratios were the same. I'm sure the difference you feel is from the individual gears, but really there's not much difference between the two as far as accelleration goes.

Hey it was my first car owned. Gimme a break. I drove it like I stole it. I had a lot to learn back then and I still have a lot of learning to do. I got 3 years out of her and still have her. Yeah, I drove her hard and I'm sure she wasn't treated well before I got her. It was just soooo great to have a car like that while most of my friends drove beat down Celicas, Firebirds, and CRXes with more holes than body panels. Would I have done anything different? Sure. But that's experience and maturity. It was a great learner. And as livestrong is a relatively new driver, may he learn from all our experience and wisdom. I wish this great site would've been around when I got my first Legacy, but I'm sooo glad you're all here now. Thanks!

THAWA wrote:Was your L a FWD? Otherwise the ratios were the same. I'm sure the difference you feel is from the individual gears, but really there's not much difference between the two as far as accelleration goes.

At mt dad's shop we have tons of AWD 5 speed manual transmissions from l's and ls' but will it hold up to a tubo car? do you hace to get a 5 speed from a Turbo legacy? by the way guys thanks for the input!

it'll bolt up. All EJ series engines/trannys are compatible

It will bolt up yes. As far as power output, I think Doug was around 220 chp before he blew 2nd on a hard shift (correct me if I'm wrong Doug). It would seem that at stock turbo power levels a NA tranny will hold up, for a while at least.

My thoughts on this matter now that there is an auto Subaru in the family.

As far as performance numbers, there are too many variables in the equation to give my MT Legacy a fair win. Yes my Legacy would hand the wagon its ass. But my Legacy is a 91 AWD MT sedan with no sunroof or ABS, and the wagon is a 93 AWD auto wagon with a sunroof and ABS. So you could almost make it even if you give the wagon some handicap points. I sometimes appreciate the auto's torque multiplication, especially when taking off from a stop, and I of course appreciate the way my Legacy opens up once I hit 4 grand.

As far as grip, since they're both AWD, I might actually give this one to the auto. Hardy has been preaching this since day one, and I didn't want to believe it, but the auto AWD system works very well, is very functional, and does it seamlessly which is very important to me. I've thrown the wagon into some corners and just laid on the gas, and have been shocked at the way it holds on, especially with blown struts and cheap-ass tires. The manual system is good, don't get me wrong. It works way better than its simple technology would suggest, and I do enjoy sliding around a bit, so the manual's inclination to step out the tail a slight bit more is fun. But if we're talking about ultimate grip, I do think the auto has it.

As far as reliability, my MT has been getting rather grumpy lately, while the 4EAT is doing just fine. Then again, the same applies. I learned how to REALLY drive stick in my Legacy: downshifting, heel-toeing, double-clutching, etc. so the transmission will have more wear. The 4EAT was driven by a middle-aged couple easy as pie.

As far as everyday convenience, I can't pick one over the other, believe it or not. Sure, I occasionally get lazy and just hop in the wagon, put it in D, and forget about it. But I have no problem shifting gears either, and I do nothing but in-town driving. There are times that I'm in my Legacy and kinda wish I didn't have to shift gears, and there are times that I'm in the wagon that I wish I could shift.

But... as far as enjoyment, I simply cannot call the AT as much fun to drive as the MT. I don't give a rat's ass about drag racing, so I don't care which one is faster in the 1320. I've done some pretty fancy driving in both cars, my Legacy of course, but I took the wagon through the mountains this summer and did fling it around a bit. It was simply more fun in the manual. Yes, I know, you can left-foot brake an automatic, and do all this fancy shit to make it almost as involving as a manual. I don't care. To me it's not the same.

I will have auto cars in my life, I'm almost sure of it. There are times when I am not in car mode, and just want to get where I'm going without trying to enjoy the drive. But if I'm feeling like driving spiritedly, I simply have to go with a manual.

It's just not the same, period.

If a auto legacy weighed 300lbs more than a manual, that would mean that the auto trans weighs about 400+ pounds. Clearly not true. The stock manual trans also makes it pretty hard to shift fast

For some reason I thought it weighed that much. Maybe that was the weight difference between the sedan and the wagon?


Oh well, I guess that'll teach me to look up my facts before posting. You learn something every day...

The 4eat does have a little edge on the 5mt, in the AWD department. On a steep incline that is ice covered, you will have an easier time getting going in the auto versus the manual.

However, the 5mt will generally give you many less headaches. No torque bind and a lot more control, compression braking, ect...

I'm currently looking to switch over to a manual setup because I don't like the 4eat as much as I did when I first got it. The 4eat just seems to be sloppy to me. That, and it's dying and I'm facing a huge repair bill. I can get better gas mileage out of the manual setup too. I also just like simplicity, less things to go wrong. A lot of times it seems that there's a dead spot with the auto trans too. A big boost, low acceleration spot that isn't there as much with the manual. I can't get going as fast in my auto as I can with the manual either. Sure, I can put it in manual but it's too difficult to accurately shift an auto trans in manual. So I've swung back over to favoring a manual.

The manual button isn't so you can shift the transmission.

What's wrong with your tranny?

BAC5.2 wrote:If I were just drag racing, I'd probably use an automatic. It's consistent, and you can launch on boost.

Bingo! someone give this man a cookie.

The topic of this thread was "what would be better for 1/4 mile" No matter what, if you're drag racing, the Auto's gonna beat you, I don't care how fast you kids think you can shift. Building boost off the line is huge, especially with an AWD car because you then have the opportunity to make more torque off the line and actually be able to put it down. Autos can easily be made to shift faster and if you need more engine speed off the line, higher stall converters are available. Add to that the accurate consistency of an auto box. Since most drag racing is about consistency, not overall who's faster, the auto wins again.

Now my car is a 5mt, and I love it. IMHO a 5 speed is more fun, especially for the way I use my car. If I were building a drag turbo scoob though, there's no doubt I'd be using an auto box.

legacy92ej22t wrote:People are always saying that AWD is best for road and track conditions too, which really it's not. There is a reason that almost every high speed motor sport is RWD.

That's because AWD is outlawed by the FIA in most series. you can thank Audi for that. ... luckly with the recent popularity of AWD sports cars this is gradualy changing.



edit:
BTW, the curb weight of an SS Manual car is 3140, an Auto is 3220 making the Auto car only 80lbs heavier.

wiscon_mark wrote:

vrg3 wrote:Or a Legacy that isn't a turbo...

Yeah, I agree with Manarius, a non-STi WRX is just a waste

Unless you are from New Zealand, like me, where the WRX's have 280hp...The STi down there is pretty much a trim package!

All 2.0 Liter though