Haltech, LinkPlus, or Autronic for stand alone EM

[Legacy777]

Josh, is there a reason you are only looking at the SM4 instead of the GC WRX drop-in box? That should eliminate most of the problems with Autronic that have been mentioned. Not to mention near plug-n-play ability.

And honestly, what it comes down to is what tuner are you going to use and what are they the most comfortable with?

As mentioned, the GC wrx plugin board can't do boost & ISC. That IMO...for essentially the same cost as the SM4 and less then the LinkPlus G3 is unacceptable....but that's my opinion.

The plug & play thing really isn't an issue to me. I'll make whatever I use plug & play for my application.

You're exactly right about the tuner. That makes a difference.

[Legacy777]

I asked about the additional software ability with the Link. Here's what Ray had to say.

The plan is to have the Autotune available in the latter half of this year. There will be a "math" key tuning function like the Autronic in about two months.

[Adam West]

All for approximately how much $$? Intalled $??

[Legacy777]

The LinkPlus G3 is $1850
GM IAT probably $35
My local tuner has a flat fee for stand alone tuning $750

Install will be done by me. If you're looking for a price....I'd probably estimate a good day if you take your time 4-8 hours is probably a good estimate for me. A shop may not take as long. Shop rate $50-$100 /hr, depending on the shop I guess.

So obviously...it's not a cheap investment, but if you look at how much money people put into building a motor, doing a trans swap/build....it's really not too much.

[Adam West]

So you can do EM and not do all that other stuff? <grin>

Actually for EM that's a pretty competitive price.

[Brat4by4]

So obviously...it's not a cheap investment, but if you look at how much money people put into building a motor, doing a trans swap/build....it's really not too much.

When you look at $/HP it starts to look even better.

[Legacy777]

Yeah....it's really not too bad for what you get.

I got talking with my tuner about HP numbers, and the fact that most of the dynos out there are over exagerated. Dynojet calculates torque based on spinning a drum. There were some initial fudge factors that were inserted into the dynojet numbers, and as HP increases the discrepencies get bigger.

I'll have to see if I can find the article he was talking about.

The dyno dynamics dyno measures torque and calculates HP. He did also mention that other dyno dynamics shops will put a 15% fudge number in there so their numbers are more like everyone elses.

He did the calcs based off the fuel injectors, and I should land somewhere around 250-260 hp. So we'll see. It is what it is...

[Legacy777]

Found the article on the dynojet...
http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/113_ ... index.html

[93forestpearl]

Damn Josh, you've done some serious homework. I got the same feedback from people on the earlier Link systems, but the more I looked into the G2(then) the more attractive it became. I'm curious what the actual difference is between the G2 and G3. All the software updates have been for both units. What is the processor speed on the G3? Mine is at 40Mhz.

Are you getting it with the 5 bar map sensor? I only got the 2.5 off the bat and it was a mistake. Its a spendy unit to buy separate.


Neil was very cool with me as well. Definitely a straight shooter.



If the up and coming autotune feature works with mine as well that would be pretty sweet. Tuning on your own for light load stuff on the road is a serious PITA. The Zeitronix setup, which I think you have if I remember right, is a big help since it can be logged with RPM, MAP, EGT and another when it comes to the mid-range and top end. You said your are going to have it tuned so it probably doesn't matter.

I hope that the new software update comes out with the closed loop boost control enabled finally. I've been having serious issues with higher boost in fifth and sixth gear which is not cool. It might just be the GM BCS not being able to keep up as well. The ports are pretty small. I've been holding off on buying a nice boost controller since they are damned expensive for what they are. Also knowing that the Link is capable of it made me even more hesitant on buying another box to find room for under the dash somewhere.


Anyways, mine fired right up on the base map provided. I had to scale the injectors down right away, but it was in the ballpark.

[Legacy777]

Yeah I did some serious homework. It's not a cheap investment, plus it's important to get the functionality I want, regardless of price.

Yeah, it's the same spec with processor speed. Here's a nice list of its specs
http://www.tfelectronics.com.au/PageFiles/linkecu.html

I had not planned on getting the 5-bar map sensor, but I was a little concerned about running out room with the 2.5 bar map, and was going to look into a 3-bar GM map sensor since it's already calibrated in the software.

How much more is the 5-bar map? How much does it cost separately? Have you bought the 5-bar map yet?

Yeah I'm having mine tuned. So initial setup will not be as big a deal, but I would like to start learning, and hope to watch the tuner. As time goes on, I'm sure I'll play with it. Yeah the Zeitronix setup should be pretty helpful. I'm going to wire that into an input on the Link.

I do believe the G3 has closed loop boost control already enabled....at least the sample map has it enabled.

Which base map did you use? Was a subaru specific one?

[93forestpearl]

The 5 bar MAP sensor was $180 after the fact, or I think it was a $90 upgrade. Now I have the 2.5bar MAP sensor sitting on the shelf in my garage collecting dust. I highly recommend getting the 5 bar off the bat, because the 2.5 is only good to a hair over 21psi. The EJ22T heads are like blowing through a straw compared to other subarus so you can throw lots of boost at them if your turbo can support it. I've been up to 28psi with mine.


There is no closed loop boost control yet. On their forums, they said its a goof in the software. If you try to select it, nothing happens. I'm willing to bet closed loop will actually be open with their major update in a couple months. Or at least I have my fingers crossed.


As far as the base map I used, I believe I used the earliest subaru map they have in there, something like "Subaru Version 1-4" or along those lines. Then I changed it over to speed density. A ton of other stuff was already set up though.


For tuning, I HIGHLY recommend this book. It got me started and provided me with the balls to do some serious tweaking. Its worth every penny.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/How-to ... 828/?itm=2

[Legacy777]

Interesting to know about the boost. I plan to run the 550 cc/min STi injectors....so I'm not sure if a GM 3 bar would cover me for that....or if I would need a 5 bar. I guess I'll probably get teh 5 bar Map. The GM 3 bar MAP's can't be too much money.

Hmm....on your G2, is closed loop boost control greyed out, or can you select it?

I see the v1-2 subaru map, but it's for the LEM, which doesn't have sequential injection, so there's some things that would need to be changed. I'll have to probably create a custom base map off some of the newer subaru maps and the older one.

Yeah I have that tuning book. I read most of it until it gets into the project cars. I thought it was alright, but it didn't really wow me much. It may have just been in how I was trying to relate it to the PP.....I don't know.

[Adam West]

Either of you guys read this one??? Thinking of ordering it...

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Management ... 602&sr=8-2

[93forestpearl]

I used whatever map was the earliest one for the G2. Maybe it was Version 4-6? I can't remember.


On mine, the option for closed loop doesn't even show up in the submenu. I haven't updated my firmware in a while though.


I guess I like that book so much since I started with no knowledge. I thought he explained the theories very well, and thats what I wanted to get out of it.

[Legacy777]

There is some pretty recent firmware updates, like in february and even march.

[Legacy777]

I just talked with Neil, and he says closed loop boost control is there, and works. This is on the G3 though. I couldn't tell you about the G2.

There is a new version of the PC Link software 3.34, which just got posted with the past week or two. I'd look updating your firmware and software.

[Legacy777]

Also, to upgrade to the 5bar MAP sensor, it's 10% additional of the cost of the ECU, so it's $185. So there's not really any savings to get one now vs. later.

I will probably just look into the GM 3-bar MAP sensor.

[bmxpunk]

Josh,
You are going with the wire in unit correct? Why this route over using the "adaptalink?" I am just wondering because, I just got my car wired, and am not looking forward to doing so again.

After following your threads and researching more... and cringing at Ray Halls comments who I spoke to at the beginning of my shannigans, I think I am going to go the Link route. THe link appears to be the better choice with KNock control, I a dont grenade the 3000 I have already spent on this motor.

Who did you order your LInk from?

[93Leg-c]

Great thread. I subscribe!

[Legacy777]

Yes I'm going to wire in the unit. Actually I'm going to scavenge an ECU connector from one of the many ECU's I have. I'll have to desolder the connector, and wire the pins to the wires of the Link harness.

I decided to go that route, because the adapta link is $495. They may a product called a header link which is the ECU connector into a circuit board, and spots where you solder the link wires to....but even that is $275.

Plus, even if I were to get the adapta link, I'd still have to move pins around, as the pins are wired for the RS Liberty.

I'm going to get my Link from the local tuner here in Houston. It's the same price whether I order from him, or order from Link USA directly.

From when I called Vivid racing, they said they could get the LinkPlus G3 for $1710, but I don't know if they were just saying that.....

[Legacy777]

Just on a lighter side....most of us bitch about Nasioc and the attitudes.....but I found this post from WRX Harvey to be very genuine and I appreciate his comments. Good to know everyone on nasioc isn't a turd

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... st21701117

[Legacy777]

Got my Link
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... inkplusg3/

Just need to get the AWIC exchangers squared away, then I'll start on wiring everything up.

[93forestpearl]

Nice. Did you have to assemble it or something?




As far as wiring it goes, I dunno. The layout of the factory harness makes it a pain, since the 4 groups of wires for each plug comes from different places. Be slow and meticulous and you might keep it organized.


Also, I highly recommend that you get a 50pack of crimp type heat shrink connectors. Soldering is best avoided in cars. There's a reason you will not find wires soldered together in a car from the factory.


Good luck!

[Legacy777]

No I didn't have to assemble it. I took it apart because apparently they did not install a screw or bushing or whatever to keep the circuit board from rattling around.

The shop I got it from called and complained, and said that Link will be shipping two new ones out when they get their new batch to swap these out.

Why do you recommend not soldering? I was planning to desolder an ECU connector from a spare ECU I have and wire the link connectors into the appropriate pin. I can't use crimp connectors on the ECU connector.

I have talked with Vikash about it. I plan to solder the wires to the ECU connector, use heat shrink, and then coat everything in an epoxy.

[93forestpearl]

I meant you shouldn't solder two wires together. If you are making a plug & play thingie from a factory ECU plug, that might be different. I try to shy away from soldering wires in a car because vibration will eventually cause the individual strands of the wires to fatigue and break right at the solder. Not to say I didn't solder anything, but all my critical connections are crimped. Now I've never had a soldered connection fail on me, but I just didn't want to take the risk on things like my triggers and other various critical inputs and outputs.

This was all to the advice of some EMS people, like some of the guys at Link. Take it for what its worth. I'm sure you are very capable at soldering. I just got scared when I was told that.