I Need Some Tips Rebuilding a Stock Engine

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:51 am

The crank measured out great, stock size on most places, and only worn 0.0003" at most. I ordered gaskets and tons of little things from www.SubaruParts.com, mailed them my Subaru bucks.

I was about to order Topline piston rings and bearings on www.ImportPerformanceParts.net but I wanted to make sure I give them the right information before I order.

Which information do I give them when they ask for engine code? On the plaque by the driver's strut tower under the hood there's the code EJ22ECWDWL for the engine, do I give them that? Do they also need to know "Main Journal Size Marks" from the top front of the engine? That may sound like a stupid question, but I don't know how to present that information, and I'm worried that if I give it to them it may just confuse them if it's not needed. On my engine those numbers read 3 2 2 2 3. Block Combo 67. Cylinder Bore Sizes #3 A #1 B #2 A #4 B, shit are they going to need this info too for the piston rings? man I'm glad I'm asking you guys first...

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:48 pm

When you buy replacement parts you get what you get,they dont custom size everything for you that way.If your crank measures out good which it should and you dont plan any machining then what you want is standard size or STD.Same goes for your pistons with no machining you want standard as well,expect them to be a bit loose if the cylinders have wear.All they need to know is ej22 non turbo for the engine code forget the other stuff that was from the factory and isnt really usefull to you now.Just click on the part that describes you app the best and you should be fine.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:07 pm

Alright, thanks. Since the cylinders are worn, would reusing the old rings be a better idea for fitment, or would it make little difference? I guess new ones would be slightly larger actually, because they're less worn...

EDIT: I'm over thinking this, I'll rehone the cylinders and get new rings.

jp233 · Post by **jp233** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:22 pm

absolutely do not re-use the old rings.

if the bore is sound enough just to be re-honed, and you are re-using the stock pistons, just get STD rings and you should be good.

The keys are the dimensions - ring grooves, diameters, if anything is out of round too much, taper, etc.

Generally the non-turbo motors seem to be able to go nearly a quarter of a million miles and unless put together very wrong from the factory or really heavily abused, or something broke say from missed timing --- they are still in good shape when taken apart.

If you just re-hone, and use new rings and set them in properly (try reading http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm for a good explanation - granted this is suited for very-high compression ratio motorcycle engines, but the concepts apply) --- you should be in good shape.

What were the compression levels before disassembly?

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:26 pm

I hate to admit it but I totally forgot to get compression numbers before pulling the engine. I rushed it.

I had intended on following this: http://wiki.nasioc.com/wiki/Break-in_engine

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:51 pm

Good article,with the redundancy weeded out its a good read!

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:56 pm

It definitely needs a rewrite, but it answered thoroughly so many questions I had.

jp233 · Post by **jp233** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:25 pm

Yeah one of the over-looked keys is making sure the engine is fully up to operating temp before getting on the gas!

Then just varying loading on the engine - in a 4 stroke that means varying the throttle on accel and decel - the rings break in very quickly for sure. If the heads had been rebuilt, they take a little bit longer and this is how sometimes an engine with a few thousand miles will make more power than it did when it only have a few hundred.

Heat cycles are key, after doing the initial start-up, then running it hard, letting it cool down 100% to ambient before going at it again is crucial.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:09 am

Guys, don't laugh, but I think I'm going to get my piston skirts moly coated to reduce friction on the already scuffed skirts. I found a place that does it as cheap as $14 per piston. http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10971

Band-aid over a bullet wound, I know. Still cheaper than machine work and new pistons.

Do you guys know of other sites that do this? The only other one I found was http://www.pistoncoating.com/ but they don't list their prices. I did e-mail them, they haven't gotten back yet.

EDIT: What are your thoughts on valve lapping, gentlemen?

SLODRIVE · Post by **SLODRIVE** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:14 am

Getting used pistons coated? Are you serious?

Jeez, it's only about $160 for new pistons WITH rings, i.e. $40 per piston...Do you REALLY think you're saving anything coating your scuffed-up pistons?

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:45 pm

Seriously? I couldn't find pistons that cheap, where do you find them? I feel kind of foolish, but I'm becoming short on time.

EDIT: Definitely point me to places I could get cheap pistons, I do have enough time to order some, and I could sell the rings I bought if they do come with some.

EDIT2: I just looked on eBay, the last place I would have, and found these. Are these legitimately good?

SLODRIVE · Post by **SLODRIVE** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:11 pm

Those pistons are on the very site you linked to on the top of this page...

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

Part #PASU9, $158.00 for a set of Topline pistons and rings.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:44 pm

Agreed,scrap the coating business.If you shipped those to them they would probably laugh at you,and then take your money lol.Though it may be better than nothing.Topline pistons at the least.

As far as lapping,also another maybe better than nothing but dont bother unless there is a need,done wrong can do more harm than good.Never actually done it myself,its one of those things that sort of died along with the carburetor,a proper recut of valves and seats requires none of this but in your case maybe,do some research on it.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:44 pm

SLODRIVE wrote:Those pistons are on the very site you linked to on the top of this page...

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

Part #PASU9, $158.00 for a set of Topline pistons and rings.

I see. I had looked there but the piston set is only listed for 1990-1997 engines, so I wasn't sure (I guess they are the same size, aren't they?), and also at the top of the page it says "Pistons are priced per piston but are only sold as sets. Please enter in the # of pistons you need (4 or 6)" which lead me to ignore where it says "(set of 4)" under those.

I've decided I am going to bore the engine over 0.50mm and get new pistons. I did some research, and it seems the Nippon Piston Ring brand pistons from eBay should be good products (so long as they aren't counterfeit) since the company is partially owned by, and supplies to, Toyota; among others. I'll be getting ACL bearings from the same supplier.

VERY IMPORTANT:
One thing I'm not sure of is if these aftermarket pistons are all the same size, or have an A and B size like the stock pistons. And if they are one size, which stock diameter do I use for instructing the machine shop to bore it over 0.50mm? I've e-mailed the seller of the pistons, but I don't know if he'll get back to me as soon as I'd like.

EDIT:

gijonas wrote:As far as lapping,also another maybe better than nothing but dont bother unless there is a need,done wrong can do more harm than good.Never actually done it myself,its one of those things that sort of died along with the carburetor,a proper recut of valves and seats requires none of this but in your case maybe,do some research on it.

I'll take this to heart, makes sense to me.

I want to thank you guys, so far you've been a great help; this is hellishly confusing to me.

SLODRIVE · Post by **SLODRIVE** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:55 pm

The pistons will all be the same size. Normally you would order the smallest oversize that you can bore the block out to. I highly recommend having the bores thoroughly checked out by your machine shop first, then get the pistons, and THEN have the block bored/honed to allow for proper clearances.

As for lapping the valves...I don't see why that would ever be a bad idea. A lot of shops hand-lap the valves even after a valve job to be absolutely sure of a proper seal. It won't help if your valves/seats are genuinely screwed up, but again it won't hurt.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:57 pm

When you take your block to the machinist they will want your pistons to measure,you wont have to worry about the sizing.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:01 pm

gijonas wrote:When you take your block to the machinist they will want your pistons to measure,you wont have to worry about the sizing.

Since I only just found pistons that are in my price range I'm kind of pressed for time. I was going to get them numbers but if my pistons come soon enough I'll rush them to the shop ASAP. I guess they'll have to wait if I want this done right... I'll tell them to wait to do my block last to buy me time.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:03 pm

Now that we have talked you into doing all this stuff you didnt at first want to,i now suggest maybe this engine should be boosted as well,that should impress your teacher lol.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:04 pm

No competent machinist will bore a block without the pistons to be used in hand.Not just an opinion.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:11 pm

gijonas wrote:Now that we have talked you into doing all this stuff you didnt at first want to,i now suggest maybe this engine should be boosted as well,that should impress your teacher lol.

Hah! My teacher's had enough of that, last year someone threw two turbos on a Nissan V6, he said it was the biggest pain in his ass since he worked at the school.

gijonas wrote:No competent machinist will bore a block without the pistons to be used in hand.Not just an opinion.

Okay, got it.

EDIT: This eBay seller got right back to me but gave me no useful information.

I'm asking him how I order the 0.50mm oversize that he says to e-mail him about.
EDIT: Got a response, ordering pistons and bearings now!

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:31 am

Got my block back from the machine shop, $180 for a jet wash, bore and hone (after I talked them out of charging me the V8 price of $320; assholes). They look good. I put my pistons up to the cylinders, the pistons have to be perfectly straight to go in, and there's no play what so ever. Is that normal? I know there's a spec, 0.0004-0.0012 in, should that be perceptible?

I'm debating getting the deck resurfaced. When I was removing the gasket remains I handed the gasket scraper off to a classmate while I went to look something up, I came back to find him using a motherf#$%ing wizzy wheel with scotch brite pad on the deck. I didn't realize how bad he F'd it up until I saw it against the clean block. I don't think it gouged or anything, it's just inconsistent and rough. I'm trying to take pictures but the lighting absolutely sucks right now, maybe I'll take some in the sun tomorrow.

I'd love to have this done mint by a machine shop, but once again money is an issue. Is there a cheaper alternative? A certain grit of sandpaper on a very flat surface? I just don't know.

I hate how this looks like a process of me trying to totally half-ass it, then realize I'm doing it wrong, over and over.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:20 am

You could straightedge the block surface. With a light from behind the straightedge, inconsistencies in the surface will be more obvious.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:35 pm

I have found that even a good quality combo square can be used as a straight edge.I took mine apart and used the rule part against my new block to find that it was accurate to less than a thousandth

.Just suggesting acheap way to check it out.

This is what i mean:

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Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:51 am

I did check it with a straight edge and feeler gauges a while ago, it's pretty much perfect in terms of that. I'm pretty it's okay for depth and straightness, I guess it's just the finish I'm concerned about. I'll try to get a picture in a bit, my friend who knows his way around his expensive camera will take some pictures for me.

I asked my teacher about it today, he said "We'll just RTV the shit out of it. It'll be fine." I found that rather concerning, to say the least. I'd sooner spend 2 hours touching it up with emery cloth, ever so carefully.

GodSquadMandrake · Post by **GodSquadMandrake** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:07 pm

Soul Shinobi: With imperfections on the deck it will WORK but it won't seal as well. This means that you could develop a headgasket leak sooner, but not right away. Also your headgasket might not stand up to as much boost. If you're just going for stock power levels with the stock fiber/metal headgasket I wouldn't worry about it. If you use a cometic or other metal headgasket and more boost it becomes more important for that headgasket to seal perfectly.

So I wouldn't worry about it unless you are going to be using a metal headgakset or making like 250+ HP.

Don't RTV it though, that's retarded. If RTV could seal a cylinder head why is there metal in headgaskets? Then you'll just have to scrape that crap when you take the heads off next time.

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I Need Some Tips Rebuilding a Stock Engine