Help with reading plugs..
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fishbone79
- Second Gear
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:14 am
- Location: Armpit, USA
The ssm dump tool is for testing and finding ecu addresses. If you make a connection you will get a ecu number, like 7431XX or something.
If you get 474849 it is the request being sent to the ecu being echoed back to your laptop because there is a setting wrong in your port setting.
If you get a ecu identifying code in the dump tool then see if there is a definition file number similar. This may help you choose...
1st character is always "7" on older cars.
2nd character is year rom was produced "0" for 1990, "2" for 1992, "3" for 1993, "4 for 1994" etc.
3rd and 4th characters seem to specify the car and engine type. For example: (25=SVX), (31,32,36,39=Legacy),(3F, 40=Impreza) Probably lots of others too.
5th character is market. "1" for JDM. "2" for USA. "3" for Europe. I guess "4" might be USSR.
6th character is ROM revision I think. Try 1,2 or 3.
You could try putting a range of addresses from the likely file into the dump and see if the figures returned make sense, ie. the revs or battery level are right. You wont get all the data fields in one dump so choose something simple to test. Revs are good. Just enter a narow range so you get a lot of readings in a few minutes.
If you find a likely candidate, copy the likely definition to the bottom of the config file and edit the ecu number in it to your number. Now try reading the car using the ssm tool, not the dump.
If you get 474849 it is the request being sent to the ecu being echoed back to your laptop because there is a setting wrong in your port setting.
If you get a ecu identifying code in the dump tool then see if there is a definition file number similar. This may help you choose...
1st character is always "7" on older cars.
2nd character is year rom was produced "0" for 1990, "2" for 1992, "3" for 1993, "4 for 1994" etc.
3rd and 4th characters seem to specify the car and engine type. For example: (25=SVX), (31,32,36,39=Legacy),(3F, 40=Impreza) Probably lots of others too.
5th character is market. "1" for JDM. "2" for USA. "3" for Europe. I guess "4" might be USSR.
6th character is ROM revision I think. Try 1,2 or 3.
You could try putting a range of addresses from the likely file into the dump and see if the figures returned make sense, ie. the revs or battery level are right. You wont get all the data fields in one dump so choose something simple to test. Revs are good. Just enter a narow range so you get a lot of readings in a few minutes.
If you find a likely candidate, copy the likely definition to the bottom of the config file and edit the ecu number in it to your number. Now try reading the car using the ssm tool, not the dump.
I decided to write up an article about how to connect to older subarus for the local subaru nuts.
If you have a look here it should have all you need to know... I hope.
http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.p ... 652.0.html
If there are any confusing/vague bits, let me know and I will rework it. Cheers.
If you have a look here it should have all you need to know... I hope.
http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forum/index.p ... 652.0.html
If there are any confusing/vague bits, let me know and I will rework it. Cheers.
Got cable. It seems only one or two values can be read at a time for constant updating. I'm used to logging on my 95 RMS, so this is completely new for me. What should I be looking for? I logged some timing advance, and it was as high as 46 degrees at WOT. A/F correction was in the negative. I can post the text file, but I'm not sure how able it is to read it because of the lack of other values.
ECT varied between 17x and 190 degrees so that's working. I'm not sure about the knock correction? It was either 0 or 128*?
ECT varied between 17x and 190 degrees so that's working. I'm not sure about the knock correction? It was either 0 or 128*?
1992 Legacy LS Special Wagon..
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Legacy Konig
- First Gear
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:51 am
- Location: St. Helens, OR
You should be able to log quite a few figures at half second intervals even with an old laptop. I use a 700Mhz in the workshop and that works fine.
It doesn't really matter if it's a bit slow, you just need to log the time and then you can factor that in as you interperate what you have. There is a delay between sensors reading and engines responding anyway. Not much, but a bit, especially things like O2 or ISC.
If you want to see what some recommended figures are, go here...
http://cid-4ca3c3459aaa7f7f.skydrive.li ... =855710817
and download a manual called "diagnostics". Have a look from page 65 onwards and it tells you what specific readings should be.
There are figures that are average at idle, but mostly what you need to look for is the correct interaction between engine and figures and between one figure and another.
If the motor is idling, the revs, the IPW the ISC D.C will all be at some particular figure... they should all behave in a certain way if you use the clutch to put a load on the engine.
If you are driving along a flat road the ignition timing should go up with revs and down as a load comes on. If the knock sensor flashes up a figure the timing should retard and the knock figure should disappear.
If you were going up a hill and the car starts to die out and the IPW stays the same or goes up while the O2 goes down it's probably a fuel blockage. If the IPW goes up and the O2 goes up, it is probably an ignition fault.
There are thousands of combinations and it needs a sound understanding of the basic principles to interperate what the data logs mean. A carefully planned log though, whilst conducting a carefully planned drive, can reveal quite a bit, especially if you have a specific problem you are looking for, or a particular theory you want to confirm or refute.
It doesn't really matter if it's a bit slow, you just need to log the time and then you can factor that in as you interperate what you have. There is a delay between sensors reading and engines responding anyway. Not much, but a bit, especially things like O2 or ISC.
If you want to see what some recommended figures are, go here...
http://cid-4ca3c3459aaa7f7f.skydrive.li ... =855710817
and download a manual called "diagnostics". Have a look from page 65 onwards and it tells you what specific readings should be.
There are figures that are average at idle, but mostly what you need to look for is the correct interaction between engine and figures and between one figure and another.
If the motor is idling, the revs, the IPW the ISC D.C will all be at some particular figure... they should all behave in a certain way if you use the clutch to put a load on the engine.
If you are driving along a flat road the ignition timing should go up with revs and down as a load comes on. If the knock sensor flashes up a figure the timing should retard and the knock figure should disappear.
If you were going up a hill and the car starts to die out and the IPW stays the same or goes up while the O2 goes down it's probably a fuel blockage. If the IPW goes up and the O2 goes up, it is probably an ignition fault.
There are thousands of combinations and it needs a sound understanding of the basic principles to interperate what the data logs mean. A carefully planned log though, whilst conducting a carefully planned drive, can reveal quite a bit, especially if you have a specific problem you are looking for, or a particular theory you want to confirm or refute.
I've varied from 87 up to 93 octane, with no change and now am back to 87. Shell Gas only. Will try to get out and do some more logging. This is a fairly new laptop (1.5ghz celeron Dell), do I need to change any port settings? It seemed with all figures clicked it didn't update a single one of them.Legacy Konig wrote:Well...
Maybe the easiest thing to try doing would be using a different gas?
What kind are you using now?
Maybe I'll log with the KS unplugged to see if it reads any values different from either 0 or 128. I suppose the easiest way to confirm would be to borrow a friend's wideband.
1992 Legacy LS Special Wagon..
Buffman....
The first thing to do is make sure the cable is being recognised by the laptop. Plug the cable into the usb, open controlpanel/system/hardware/devicemanager and scroll down to ports. Double click ports and check there is a usb to serial port. Take note what number it says it is connected to. If the cable is showing up as a port then that part is right. If it's not there you need to install drivers for the cable. If you are not sure which port connection is the one you are meant to be looking at pull the usb cable out, wait a few seconds and plug it back in again, it will dissappear and reappear. If nothing changes you don't have the drivers installed properly.
Once you have it recognised and the the port number noted down go to the folder where the ssm software is and click the text file called "selsct monitor". In there it says "commport=2", change that number to the port number you recorded earlier and close that file saving it as you go.
Now if you connect to your car, turn the key on and run the ssm dump for a few seconds, then stop it, you can get your ecu model number by clicking a button right next to the start/stop button. Get that number, it should be something starting with a 7 and it will have 6 didgits in it. If you get a number something like 46 48 49, then your laptop isn't connecting to the ecu because you have the port setting wrong or the wires going into the cars diagnostic port are around the wrong way. Go back and check the first few steps again.
Once you have the ecu number go to the folder where the ssm software is again and click the "select monitor" file. Scroll down and see if your ecu number is in there.
If your ecu number is in there, you can close that file and run the ssm program and data should get logged.
If your exact number isn't in there then you need to choose a ecu that will be close and change it's ecu number to your number and save the file, now the ssm will log data but it may or may not be right.
To choose a ecu number that should work...
1st character is always "7" on older cars.
2nd character is year rom was produced "0" for 1990, "2" for 1992, "3" for 1993, "4 for 1994" etc.
3rd and 4th characters seem to specify the car and engine type. For example: (25=SVX), (31,32,36,39=Legacy),(3F, 40=Impreza) Probably lots of others too.
5th character is market. "1" for JDM. "2" for USA. "3" for Europe. I guess "4" might be USSR.
6th character is ROM revision I think.
So, if your ecu number was 7132XX you could probably use 7032XX , 7232xx or 7332xx, which are all in the file. The difference is in the year in those cases. If your ecu was a 734014, you could use 744014, which is again a different year. If you had a 7436xx and tried to use the 7440xx it probably wouldn't work because even though the year is the same the model is different. Some people seem to think that the market is critical, but I haven't found it to be so.
Whichever one you try, if the laptop connects you will start to get some sort of data. Even if it's rubbish at least you know you have a connection though. We can start figuring out what addresses you need to use after that is working.[/url]
The first thing to do is make sure the cable is being recognised by the laptop. Plug the cable into the usb, open controlpanel/system/hardware/devicemanager and scroll down to ports. Double click ports and check there is a usb to serial port. Take note what number it says it is connected to. If the cable is showing up as a port then that part is right. If it's not there you need to install drivers for the cable. If you are not sure which port connection is the one you are meant to be looking at pull the usb cable out, wait a few seconds and plug it back in again, it will dissappear and reappear. If nothing changes you don't have the drivers installed properly.
Once you have it recognised and the the port number noted down go to the folder where the ssm software is and click the text file called "selsct monitor". In there it says "commport=2", change that number to the port number you recorded earlier and close that file saving it as you go.
Now if you connect to your car, turn the key on and run the ssm dump for a few seconds, then stop it, you can get your ecu model number by clicking a button right next to the start/stop button. Get that number, it should be something starting with a 7 and it will have 6 didgits in it. If you get a number something like 46 48 49, then your laptop isn't connecting to the ecu because you have the port setting wrong or the wires going into the cars diagnostic port are around the wrong way. Go back and check the first few steps again.
Once you have the ecu number go to the folder where the ssm software is again and click the "select monitor" file. Scroll down and see if your ecu number is in there.
If your ecu number is in there, you can close that file and run the ssm program and data should get logged.
If your exact number isn't in there then you need to choose a ecu that will be close and change it's ecu number to your number and save the file, now the ssm will log data but it may or may not be right.
To choose a ecu number that should work...
1st character is always "7" on older cars.
2nd character is year rom was produced "0" for 1990, "2" for 1992, "3" for 1993, "4 for 1994" etc.
3rd and 4th characters seem to specify the car and engine type. For example: (25=SVX), (31,32,36,39=Legacy),(3F, 40=Impreza) Probably lots of others too.
5th character is market. "1" for JDM. "2" for USA. "3" for Europe. I guess "4" might be USSR.
6th character is ROM revision I think.
So, if your ecu number was 7132XX you could probably use 7032XX , 7232xx or 7332xx, which are all in the file. The difference is in the year in those cases. If your ecu was a 734014, you could use 744014, which is again a different year. If you had a 7436xx and tried to use the 7440xx it probably wouldn't work because even though the year is the same the model is different. Some people seem to think that the market is critical, but I haven't found it to be so.
Whichever one you try, if the laptop connects you will start to get some sort of data. Even if it's rubbish at least you know you have a connection though. We can start figuring out what addresses you need to use after that is working.[/url]
Last edited by log1call on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
yeah cable is recognized as Serial Port. It returns value in the Dump, but when you click ID, it comes up with NULL. if I got straight to logging, it will pick the ECU ID, and bring up the appropriate cells. I'll doubel check my connections to the select monitor connector.
1992 Legacy LS Special Wagon..
when you get Null as an ecu id in the dump, it means you aren't connected to the ecu. You will still get readings in the ssm tool because there is an ecu in there labeled Null.
Check you have edited the comport=2 to what ever your serial cable is showing as in control panel.
If that doesn't fix it, I'll bet you have the two wires, RX and TX swapped the wrong way.
Check you have edited the comport=2 to what ever your serial cable is showing as in control panel.
If that doesn't fix it, I'll bet you have the two wires, RX and TX swapped the wrong way.
I get values in Dump, but when you stop it, and click get ID it says NULL. If you just press Get ID it says Null. It recognizes ECM in SM.
I did a direct connection to the wires (with good crimp ons) and it can only do 2 values and it seems to drop values and go to zero before posting again.
I did a direct connection to the wires (with good crimp ons) and it can only do 2 values and it seems to drop values and go to zero before posting again.
1992 Legacy LS Special Wagon..
values in dump text
<<<< SelectMonitorDump Started: 9/15/2009 12:01:15 AM >>>>
#### Address 1305 to 1320 at 9/15/2009 12:01:16 AM ####
1305: 1D 2.32 058 0725 -021 0.57 7.42 11.33 283.2 566.4 -099 0232 -1.16
1306: 10 1.28 032 0400 -034 0.31 4.10 6.25 156.3 312.5 -112 0128 -1.32
1307: 00 0.00 000 0000 -050 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0 -128 0000 -1.51
1308: 00 0.00 000 0000 -050 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0 -128 0000 -1.51
<<<< SelectMonitorDump Stopped: 9/15/2009 12:01:17 AM >>>>
<<<< SelectMonitorDump Started: 9/15/2009 12:01:15 AM >>>>
#### Address 1305 to 1320 at 9/15/2009 12:01:16 AM ####
1305: 1D 2.32 058 0725 -021 0.57 7.42 11.33 283.2 566.4 -099 0232 -1.16
1306: 10 1.28 032 0400 -034 0.31 4.10 6.25 156.3 312.5 -112 0128 -1.32
1307: 00 0.00 000 0000 -050 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0 -128 0000 -1.51
1308: 00 0.00 000 0000 -050 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0 -128 0000 -1.51
<<<< SelectMonitorDump Stopped: 9/15/2009 12:01:17 AM >>>>
1992 Legacy LS Special Wagon..
I have been trying to figure why you aren't getting any data but I can't think of a reason. Even the wrong addresses should give some reading... bad figures but at least something.
Your market number, the five, I don't know where that is but it shouldn't stop it getting anything.
You could go into controlpanel/system/hardware/managermanager/comports/ right click your port to open properties, open the portsettings tab. The settings should be 9600, 8, none, 1, none. Click the advanced button in there and check it says 4096, 4096 for receive and transmit, 16 for latency, 0 and 0 for timeout.
If that doesn't help then...
In the dump, you got two bits right at the start, then it went blank.
You could try changing the addresses in the dump and let it run right to the bottom of the screen. It might be that you always get two bits at the start whereever you log from, it might be that you just get a couple of bits with big gaps in between. Try logging from a few different ranges of addresses in the dump, see if there is a reoccuring patern of logging and not logging.
Your market number, the five, I don't know where that is but it shouldn't stop it getting anything.
You could go into controlpanel/system/hardware/managermanager/comports/ right click your port to open properties, open the portsettings tab. The settings should be 9600, 8, none, 1, none. Click the advanced button in there and check it says 4096, 4096 for receive and transmit, 16 for latency, 0 and 0 for timeout.
If that doesn't help then...
In the dump, you got two bits right at the start, then it went blank.
You could try changing the addresses in the dump and let it run right to the bottom of the screen. It might be that you always get two bits at the start whereever you log from, it might be that you just get a couple of bits with big gaps in between. Try logging from a few different ranges of addresses in the dump, see if there is a reoccuring patern of logging and not logging.
I will try editing them today. I'll try and log some more dump. Will check COM settings. Unless somehow the ECU is on it's way out. I've found exterior corrosion on the trans ECM, and have found what looks like rust from what I can see on the engine ECM. I need to pull the panel to check the connections and everything at the ECM. The previous owners seriously neglected this car, so I wouldn't be surprised if they drove around with a smashed windshield in the rain or something and let water get under the dash.
EDIT: Port Settings right.
EDIT: Port Settings right.
1992 Legacy LS Special Wagon..
It is connecting to the ecu electricaly. It is communicating enough to ask what model and get a reply, so the protocol is right and the signal is getting through.
There is a programmer that comes on here sometimes that has been doing work on these things, he reckons that there is a problem with the 92 models. Have a look here... http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/sma.html
His also runs this site... http://www.subiesmart.com/forum/index.p ... d,5.0.html
I have found some instances of what he discribed when I was using a homemade rs232 serial chip adaptor in the early days. My cure was to keep the wires as short as possible between the ecu and the 232 chip to prevent interferance or signal loss(I'm not sure which it was), then have a longer wire from the 232 chip to the laptop. Since using a ftdi cable I haven't had problems though.
Perhaps you could shorten the ftdi cable, then run a usb extension cable down to the ftdi chipped cable from the laptop.
At the moment the "92 problem", sound like the most likely explanation for what you have going on.
There is a programmer that comes on here sometimes that has been doing work on these things, he reckons that there is a problem with the 92 models. Have a look here... http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/sma.html
His also runs this site... http://www.subiesmart.com/forum/index.p ... d,5.0.html
I have found some instances of what he discribed when I was using a homemade rs232 serial chip adaptor in the early days. My cure was to keep the wires as short as possible between the ecu and the 232 chip to prevent interferance or signal loss(I'm not sure which it was), then have a longer wire from the 232 chip to the laptop. Since using a ftdi cable I haven't had problems though.
Perhaps you could shorten the ftdi cable, then run a usb extension cable down to the ftdi chipped cable from the laptop.
At the moment the "92 problem", sound like the most likely explanation for what you have going on.