legacycentral bbs

rob wrote:I had a chance to try out the NA ECU (thanks to Josh the pusher and Mike the mule) this weekend and unfortunately the news is not good. It took the EJ20G chip and on the bench it looked like it was running ok which was encouraging. I did notice however that it was running batched injection (paired injectors firing simultaneously), whereas the EJ20G ecu runs sequential injection. I am not sure why that is, but I took it as a bad sign. My suspicion was correct in that the car wouldn't start. So at least the version I got from Josh (with the extra riser board) is a no-go.

-Rob

Rob,

That's very interesting to hear the ECU was running a batched injection setup. Like you, I am unaware of any Subaru, especially first gen Legacy that is supposed to be running this way.

Out of curiosity, did it run in a batched injection with no modifications to the ECU, i.e. chip not installed? I ask, because I was wondering if the ECU went into a fail-safe mode. The other question/comment would be regarding the crank & cam sensor trigger pins. They are wired backwards for the non-turbo ECU and I would be curious if just adding the chip would reverse that....or if they still would be hard wired backwards on the board.

Thoughts?

Legacy777 wrote: Rob,

That's very interesting to hear the ECU was running a batched injection setup. Like you, I am unaware of any Subaru, especially first gen Legacy that is supposed to be running this way.

Out of curiosity, did it run in a batched injection with no modifications to the ECU, i.e. chip not installed? I ask, because I was wondering if the ECU went into a fail-safe mode. The other question/comment would be regarding the crank & cam sensor trigger pins. They are wired backwards for the non-turbo ECU and I would be curious if just adding the chip would reverse that....or if they still would be hard wired backwards on the board.

Thoughts?

Yes, on the bench it ran batched without modification. I did not know that about the cam/crank signals. Do you mean, their respective +/- are reversed or that the sensors as a whole are pinned one for the other? I could swap that on the bench to test.

Are there examples of folks running the ej22T with the NA ecu (after fixing the sensors) or an NA running with the turbo ecu?

I could easily see the injection being messed up if the RPM and position input was backwards.

-Rob

the signal wires need to be swapped.

Ok, like this?

Turbo | NA
Cam(-) -> Crank(-)
Cam(+) -> Crank(+)

Crank(-) -> Cam (-)
Crank(+) -> Cam (+)

I still would like to know if there are examples of people running ej22ts on NA ECUs or vice-versa.

-Rob

Correct, you can also verify by the ecu diagram posted in the electrical sticky.

If i can pony up the cash to get this ss rolling shell, ill be trying out an n/a t on one of my turbo legacies.

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Rob,

When I did my non-turbo to turbo swap, all I did was swap the positive pins at the ECU connectors for the crank & cam sensors, and that worked fine.

Here is ECU I-O which has little red N's or T's to indicate whether the I-O is for the non-turbo or turbo ECU.

http://www.surrealmirage.com/vrg3/ecupins/

Ok got it. Thinking about it I do remember seeing this when EJ20G and EJ22T pinouts. The NA function/pin listings were spelled out, but I completely ignored them.

I guess I have some more bench testing to do. I am as excited about the prospect of using the NA ECUs if it comes with a re-pinning requirement. I am also curious if the HW is setup or capable of COP.

-Rob

just currious if my ssm revscan program will still work when a 20g ecu is swapped in?

It still works with the profile for an EJ20g (I think it has Ver 2 STI), but whoever made the profile has an absolute minimum of things that it reads. If you could find out the addresses for various functions on the ecu, I'm sure it would be as comprehensive as the EJ22t's profile, or more.

mike-tracy wrote:It still works with the profile for an EJ20g (I think it has Ver 2 STI), but whoever made the profile has an absolute minimum of things that it reads. If you could find out the addresses for various functions on the ecu, I'm sure it would be as comprehensive as the EJ22t's profile, or more.

Perhaps if you contacted Vikash (vrg3), he may be of assistance, or could point you in the right direction. Josh (Legacy777) may have input on it, too.

Can you modify the SSM baud rate with the tool? On my tunes, I up the data rate a bit. Unless you can adjust, then no it won't work straight away.

-Rob

Wait a minute...my car uses a dial-up modem?
(Being a smart ass about the baud rate comment)

rob wrote:Can you modify the SSM baud rate with the tool? On my tunes, I up the data rate a bit. Unless you can adjust, then no it won't work straight away.

-Rob

so do i have any options for using my laptop and ssm cable then?

If you haven't ordered your tune yet, you could add a note to remind me to adjust the baud back to stock. Or, if you already have the tune and can't manually adjust the serial baud rate in the revtronix tool, then you can use evoscan (with some help in getting the settings right). I think there was also another program, but the name escapes me at the moment.

To be honest, I don't find all that much use out of SSM for logging. The sample rate is pretty slow and most parameters listed in a lot of these tools are just wrong, both in address and conversion value. I prefer direct sensor logging using the Innovate LMA-3 and/or the LM2.

-Rob

I bought evoscan and tried logging with it but it won't read my lc1 wideband for some reason beyond my expertise so it was completely useless to me. It was really finicky as well. Sometimes it would connect vut most of the time nothing. Pissed me off more than anything. I want my money back.

It's probably what rob mentioned, that the connection speed of his tuned chip is faster than the evoscan's default setting, Kimo.

Negative ghost rider. Already went over that with him. Had the evoscan guys make me a custom version of their software that I could change the baud rate to the faster rate which rob used. When I would connect it read the ecu fine it just didn't always connect and it wouldn't read my wideband which I tried hooking up to the serial port and the usb port with an adapter and neither worked.

Yeah I had some issues with mine as well, but Alphius helped me trouble shoot it IIRC. It was a software problem. Haven't tried connecting with the Robtune yet, just the stock ej20g ecu.

As Rob mentioned the date from the SSM is not reliable and is slow. During higher RPM's the ECu will sometimes just not update the data going to the SSM. I believe he mentions it somewhere in the B10 scan tool thread.

So I'm like 99.9% committed to getting a rob tune for my ej22t
Ive got, sti 525cc yellow side feeds, td05-16g from UK, and Subaru AWIC.
Stock heads
What kind of crank HP can I expect from this setup?

I Would also like to know as well, how many people have went Rob Tune with SOHC ?

My Motor just blew up after 4 days of driving, don't want the hassle of going DOHC, maybe Port & Polish the SOHC's with some Delta Re-Grinds.

I will be going EJ22T / TD05 / 440's / 06 TMIC

Oh, also I would like to probably go the WRX coil pack route as well !

I don't expect dyno results , but a general experience would be nice !

Wont be able to with sohc heads

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I'm running EJ22T SOHC with 440's/TD04/06TMIC/Walbro and the stock (well, Diamond) coil pack and Rob's ignitor adapter (which is an easy install). This is a smooth ride and will probably AutoX awesome.

Personally, I'd love to know what sort of experience people have had with the stock 22T long block and 550's/VF39 or similar setup (Robtune or otherwise). I tried my VF8 and it was just too laggy with these little heads, although I could have used an additional 1000+ rpm at the top end.

Just to clarify I meant coil on plug with sohc wont work. You would have to have external coils with custom wires.

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