legacycentral bbs

My car is running well and I've had 8 months to work out many of the issues left over from our last test in Feb. '09....so I wanted to get an update from the Dyno.

So, on Saturday Mike @ Revtronix and I did another Dyno test @ Racing Greed in Coquitlam, B.C. near Vancouver. They have a Mustang Dyno.

Here's a GRAPHMike created from the data. Note these are 2ND GEAR ONLY.

I think the main number is the 230 ft/lbs. of Torque. The HP isn't much different than my last run in February. I was hoping for 200; Mike was expecting closer to 180, which we were real close to.

Unfortunately, we still had issues, although this time it wasn't w/my car. The dyno's RPM gauge and boost gauge weren't working correctly, and I could only do 2nd gear (4EAT) pulls as it wouldn't work in 3rd.

We had to 'calibrate/guesstimate' the dyno's RPM to my car, rather than get a direct read off the coil, and their boost gauge was reading a couple PSI less than what my gauge and the Revscan software were reporting.

When testing in 3rd, the car would accelerate and RPM would climb to 4K but then just hang/slowly accelerate, so we'd shut it down...tried a few times w/the same result.

The car accelerates hard and consistently in 1st>>4th on the street, and I'm not aware of any issues w/my tranny.

We also noted that bumping the boost past 17psi (according to our readings - not the dyno's) didn't make more power. This was surprising as I thought the TD04 could go higher. I've read about 20psi on WRX's...but that is w/the EJ20's better heads and mostly w/users running EM that allows it to taper once it gets to a higher RPM....but on my car the TD04 just runs out of air over 17psi.

EDIT- Per Revtronix:

Did some poking around. A stock 2002 WRX automatic does around 160-165 whp/170 tq on the same wheels you're using. So Normal mode is right on par with a stock WRX except more torque! And although Power mode is only 10 whp more, you'd blow them away in terms of area under the torque curve. Nice! And all that on heads that flow ~20% less!

Thanks,
TD

yeah i had figured the torque would be significantly higher than hp. but in my opinion for city driving its funner that way than the other way around.

i'm currently running on 94 octane (there is no 93 here) and i usually run about 18psi or a bit under with a ball and spring type mbc. the turbo definitely spools much faster than with the bcs and 18 vs 17 psi has a not great but noticeable amount of more power, but on some hills the ptfb thing rears its ugly head

so i've been working at figuring a way using a bleed valve right before the wastegate acutator with the bcs so that its closed at low boost allowing the bcs to do its thing preventing ptfb but then at higher boost around 10 psi the bleed valve opens up so that some air is bled away allowing higher boost to be run and it seems spool up has been increased too as less air is getting to the wastegate actuator so its taking more time to open thus creating quicker spool.

i've done a couple back to back runs with the bcs only and then with the bcs and bleed valve, but i havent tested it out enough yet so i could be way off.

on another note i went to get an e-test yesterday. with the chip in and a tiny very high flowing 100$ metallic substrate cat i passed way cleaner than the first time i e-tested the car 2 years ago completely stock.

one of the readings was 20 vs. a max of 200 and the other .01 vs a max of 1 and it barely changed idle vs 2500rpm. i was amazed at how "clean" it was.

-Alex

ya so um I got the stage 2 in. wooooooooowwwwwssssssssssssssss . Fucking shit fuck. 14psi is pretty good, but my tranny hates it. Whining like a mofo now!! Havent even done a oil change since track day which was like 10,000km ago. Need a oil change asap before anymore redline runs. The car is FWD atm no awd working till I replace the tranny at the end of the month. So lets say rolling at 40km/h foot to floor, wheels spin bounces of redline. 2nd gear 70km/h car foot to floor, steering wheel shakes side to side can't handle it to hit 100km/h. Sooo Point is alot more torque, you need working AWD, and my tranny is slipping!!! Auto ftl, stage 2 ftw, revtronix ftw!!

Only issue. Octane factor goes down to 0 if I do enough redline runs in 1st. Atm bounces off of rev limiter till 2nd gear. Will that produce knock and detune it ? I basically just keep resetting it when it goes to 0%.

Why can't I just reset the octane factor only ?? How do I set the value?

I will get the car dyno'd in november and post results btw!

When our cars hit the rev limiter, I'm almost positive that the ECU cuts fuel, not spark, so I think it would probably create a bit of knock.

You can set the octane factor by single clicking on the value shown on the 'octane factor' line.

Yes, the octane factor is at 0 due to excessive knocking (in theory at least -- was octane factor at 100% before the chip?). Use Revscan and datalog engine load (g/rev) and knock retardation (short term). Then go for a spirited drive.... you'll see lots of knocking. Also, don't be driving it crazy for at least 50+ miles until the ECU has done some learning...

As reiterated before, your car really must be running perfectly with the stock ecu, since the revtronix chip will push things beyond their limits and expose / amplify your problems.

drove the car again tonight. It is slowly going up now. Now im at 69% even after WOT runs and studder is going away at idle. So it is definitely getting better and yes goes to 100% octane factor without the chip. I guess it still has to learn.

I also need to regap the plugs. There at a .40 atm. They are also oldish. like almost 10k now. Plus a nice oil change to synthetic would be nice, as well as a full tank of 94 octane so I can try power mode. Regardless shit loads of torque steer with FWD and wheel spin. I think the car stopped using gas like honestly too, hopefully its not running to lean. When I get the car dyno'd they will use a sniffer to measure AFR.

Hi guys,

sorry everything takes me way too long.

I finally put my car on the dyno (DynoDynamics). The car pulled 125hp and around 145ft./lb with a 32mm turbo restrictor.

This same car made 125hp with very similar torque on stock ECU when it didn't have a restrictor!

I guess now I have to remove the restrictor and do a full pull to have real numbers but have a race coming up. Graphs coming very soon.

Onur

You're on the Stage 1 chip, correct?

Only 125hp with stage 1? I dynoed my nearly stock TW over a year ago -- MBC installed and set to ~10 PSI. On their mustang dyno, I was at 136hp, 146 ft/lb. Something doesn't seem quite right with your numbers...

Sounds like Onur is runing a 'restrictor plate' or similar, which is why the 'after' numbers W/the Chip are similar to the 'before' #'s on the stock ECU.

Restrictors are required in some auto-x/rally classes, I believe.

TD

BSOD2600 wrote:Only 125hp with stage 1? I dynoed my nearly stock TW over a year ago -- MBC installed and set to ~10 PSI. On their mustang dyno, I was at 136hp, 146 ft/lb. Something doesn't seem quite right with your numbers...

Dynos are different, dyno dynamics tend to read lower then mustang dynos. Ambient temp/humid also play into numbers.

Hmm that's wierd I didnt know that. Still 125 seems awefully low for a stage 1 TW but I guess ive never actually gotten any of my 3 dynoed

The 125 is WHP, not CHP. Additionally to get that after the addition of a 32 mm restrictor is pretty good. Unless my understanding is incorrect it means the turbo is breathing through a 32mm, or 1.25", diameter hole. That's a small hole.


And Todd - way awesome torque curve!!

skid542 wrote:The 125 is WHP, not CHP. Additionally to get that after the addition of a 32 mm restrictor is pretty good. Unless my understanding is incorrect it means the turbo is breathing through a 32mm, or 1.25", diameter hole. That's a small hole.


And Todd - way awesome torque curve!!

Hi all,

Above is correct. All turboed rally cars in US and Canada require a turbo restrictor. It's 34mm for open class and 32mm for PGT (Production GT) my dyno numbers are from a BONE STOCT 91 Legacy turbo, with only an exhaust.

Dyno Dynamics will read horse power from wheels unlike the other hub dynos, so numbers may seem a bit low.

Chip really changes the throttle response, waaaay earlier increased boost, and significant amount of torque increase.

I have 2 races in the next 4-5 weeks than I will remove the restrictor and give you guys some real numbers.

anyone running the revtronix stage 2 chip that had issues with the jecs maf?

for the short time that it ran (turbo had issues after a new rebuild again), car was running lean (17 in the air/fuel gauge). when it was unplugged, i was getting 10.7 or so.

this was at idle.

now waiting for word from the turbo rebuild people and see if i need to send it back for inspection.

Yes, I did. They said that the problem was actually that my car runs a little leaner at idle than most. I was experiencing the same symptoms you were.

I found that when I switched back to the stock MAF, everything ran perfectly. Give that a try for now and then go to the Revtronix.com forum and ask your question. You might even want to post it on the subject that I started, which I believe was "Target AFR at Idle" or something of the like.

I thought they tuned it so it uses much less fuel at idle which probably results in a leaner AFR. How bad could it be for just idle really?

What is your idle AFR? According to Mike @ Revtronix, it's supposed to be whatever cruise AFR is. After they fixed the problem with mine, it idles at 15.0:1, which is a little leaner than stock, but not terribly.

A lean AFR at idle could definitely cause problems in the long-run.

RevScan 1.1 released.

New Features

* Preliminary support for more OBDI Subarus, to be expanded if there is interest
* Zeitronix ZT-2 wideband logging

Fixed Issues

* Legacy SS spark memory displayed properly now
* Can now reconnect without disconnecting first

Will there be a Stage 3 offered for open tuning? I thought I saw this offered a while back but I can't seem to locate this now.

dropdfocus wrote:Will there be a Stage 3 offered for open tuning? I thought I saw this offered a while back but I can't seem to locate this now.

Per the thread at revtronix

Here's the current status on the 1991-1994 Legacy SS chip development:
Stage 3 Chips - Cancelled, to be included with User-Programmable chip
User-Programmable - Under development, 2nd prototype under construction

Kinda sucks that the last update on this was 9 months ago and then nothing... Possibly dead in the water??

I see a few recent updates.

Mike told me the User-programmable chip should be ready 'in a few months' as of Oct. '09.....so I'd expect something early '10.

^ I'm really excited to see what happens with the user tunable one.