legacycentral bbs

So Josh... have you gotten into this project yet? I'm about to dig back into mine again to do the water pump. Not sure why I didn't replace that when I was doing the cam and crank seals & tbelt last year. Now my car is dumping coolant from somewhere near the middle/drivers side of the motor (only when warm) and I'm assuming that it's the pump. Woops. Another thing I forgot to do was address the oil pump seals even though it wasn't leaking. Still not quite picturing what exactly I need to do with that thing. It seems that I need an O-ring that we can't find a part # for and some sealant that is impossible to find. I was thinking I would use some of my Loctite red gasket crap since I used a ton of that on my 914 engine rebuild... oh yeah, and it leaks like a biatch... scratch that. I also didn't even consider replacing the tbelt tensioner. What's up with that? Do they completely fail like the old Porsche ones or something? Or do they just get noisy? That and I have never been able to locate the mythical rear passenger cam seal and don't understand what that has to do with digging into the front of the motor. Mine has never leaked either (160k miles). So anyway... if you did yours already, what did you end up finding/doing?

Btw, last time I did the belts, I removed only the fans, had plenty of room and the crank pully fell off in my hand without using a puller (to answer questions from earlier posts). I think I'll try removing the radiator and fans together this time since I'll be dumping the coolant anyway.

----edit----

Ok, been reading some more and answered my questions about oil pump seal part number, sealant, tensioner and idler bearings.

Thanks

Dave

One thing I thought was strange after leaving work and finding all my coolant on the ground was that when I started the car and drove for a few miles, the temp gauge behaved perfectly normal despite the fact that I wasn't getting any heat out of my heater vents. I stopped it a mile or so later at a friend's house and checked everything out. Seemed to be pretty empty of coolant. Once I filled it back up and bled the air out of the system, I got plenty of heat from the vents, everything seemed ok and it didn't leak a drop all the way home (8 or so miles) and only leaked a tiny bit in my driveway overnight. So I'm curious why the gauge didn't read cold the whole time (which is what I expected) or why the car didn't overheat at all with such a lack of fluid? Did Fisher Price make these temp gauges or what?? And why would it only leak when it's cold? Seems backwards.

One thing I just noticed is that apparently the water pump is on the passenger side of the motor. Huh. Interesting. That's not where the leak is. I suppose it could just be running down the timing belt case though.

Thanks,

Dave

Hey Dave,

I'm planning on doing mine this weekend. I was up in PA last weekend....had strep throat last week......so we'll give it a shot this weekend.

BTW....the water pump is on the driver's side.....

Yeah, I think I was looking at a negative image when I was seeing passenger side water pumps. I did finally get under my car and tracked the leak to the water pump gasket. Neato. Now I also tentatively plan to do this job this weekend. OTOH, I wonder if JB weld or something like that could buy me some time. The timing of this really couldn't be much worse. If something like JB weld (which I have never used before) would hold, it looks like the leaky part is easily accessible. I think it only leaks when it's cold and the metal expands enough to seal it when warm. What do you think?

Dave

If the water pump is leaking, chances are its coming out the weep hole which means the coolant is getting past the seals into the bearings. Pump's on short time.

Steve

Yeah, I plan on replacing it very soon, but if I could buy 2-4 weeks with JB weld or something, it would be nice. I don't think the pump itself is leaking. The leak appears to be coming from between the pump and the engine block. I'm pretty sure about that as it's quite easy to see. Now, the weap hole, I'm assuming, is in the front of the pump near the shaft as usual. I think the pump is fine. Seems to be working well and not making any noise, etc. At 160k miles, I will be replacing it ASAP though. Still kicking myself for not doing it with the belts last year. I claim momentary lapse of reason.

Dave

what about using some of that gasket in a btube stuff, thats made for waterpumps and thermostats and shit.

Yeah, I don't think JB-Weld is what you want since it's meant to provide a permanent bond. I'm also not sure if it'll bond right to something wet.

THAWA's idea of using some kind of gasket maker might work. I'm not very confident since this is a completely different task than that required of a gasket but it's worth a shot. Try a few different kinds of RTV silicone and see what you can do.

Yeah, I could try some permatex on it. I have some and it wouldn't hurt to try, I guess. Or I could just leave it parked until I get around to fixing it. Perhaps I'll dig out a P-car early this year

Dave

Anyone know anything about Beck water pumps? The sube dealer has both the OEM and a Beck water pump for my car, with the Beck pump being slightly more expensive. I'm inclined to go OEM, but I'm scratching my head over this one. Same goes for the OEM vs. Gates timing belt. I'll save about $15 on the Gates, so I'll probably go with that. I can't imagine that the dealer would be selling substandard timing belts. Anybody familiar with these aftermarkets?

Thanks,

Dave

The Beck (is that Beck/Arnley?) water pump is probably a remanufactured OEM Subaru one. The OEM is probably a new one.

Yeah, that's Beck/Arnley. If it's a reman, I wonder why it would cost more than the new OEM. The PartsAmerica website had a new Beck of the same model for $99. The discounted price of the two from the dealer is new OEM $58 and Beck $67.

Thanks,

Dave

Ok, I tackled this project this past weekend. It wasn't that bad....just a few hairier parts.

I didn't remove the radiator...didn't want to mess with that. I may have slightly bent a few edges of the fins....nothing to worry about though. Removing the crank gear wasn't too big a deal...stuck a breaker bar in the flex plate and held the motor in place. The first slight problem was getting the timing gear off the crank. I used a puller....but since there wasn't enough room to press it off I used the puller and bolts and just used a hammering motion against the bolts to get it off (I know that makes no sense )

The other weird thing was the timing belt marks were not aligned to the marks on the pulley. The belt was aligned properly between crank & cam gears....but the premade marks just weren't in the same spot.....no biggy.

I got everything apart....I have the cam sprocket tool....so that was a pretty nice thing to have. I then removed the oil pump.....missed a few bolts and was wondering why it wasn't coming off so easily. Everything looked ok, and the backing plate screws were on there tighter then hell. I ended up using a hex bit in a 1/4" socket to just unloosen the screws and check that the oil pump rotors were ok. I retightened the same way....so they shouldn't be loosening up. I cleaned everything up, replaced the crank seal while I had the pump out....much easier. I used the 32mm socket I used for the axle nut as a seal tamper.....worked very very good! I used the ultra grey permatex sealent on the oil pump. Worked good and everything is cool....The new o-ring went in....I just wish i could've found my little mirror to make absolute sure the o-ring didn't move. I don't think it did....but ya know...

The big issue i ran into was getting the damn front cam seals off. I spent a while cursing and trying all sorts of stuff to get the driver's side off. I finally figured out the trick. You slide a small flat head between the cam shaft and the seal and push it in at an angle....then you use the block as a pivot point and push towards the block at the end of the handle which will pop out the seal. Once I figured it out.....I got the pass side out in a minute or so. I put the new seals back in. I did the rear pass side cam seal as well. it wasn't too big a deal....but definitely needed to be replaced. The front seals weren't bad and I really didn't see any leaks, but wanted to do them anyway.

I put the cam sprockets back on and tightened them up.....I don't know if I'd want to do this job on an interference engine since the cams actually moved pretty easily.

I probably should've replaced the idler pullies and gear......but they should be ok. I aligned everything back up for the t-belt. I replaced the tensioner too.....the old one was probably ok, but again....just did it to make sure. I rolled the motor over a few times back and forth to make sure the tensioner took up the slack and everything was still aligned properly.

I also swapped out pullies. I put a stock diameter aluminum crank pulley on and put a light weight ps pulley on too.

Overall i had about 8-9 hours into everything, but that was a lot of anal cleaning as well I actually think I could do the timing belt job in 2 hours.....I was surprised at how smoothly it went.

So far everything is running well....don't really notice much difference in how the car runs. The lights don't dim and the car seems a little less peaky.....which I think is due to the pulley. However i've only driven the car like 2 miles so far.

I'll be driving a little more tomorrow and also need to change the oil....it's nasty....

here's pics
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... imingbelt/

Thanks for the write up - very useful!

My timing belt job is on the horizon - 15k overdue already .

The concensus seems to be to do the oil pump seal - is this strictly needed at <100k? I don't fancy messing around with the oil pump needlessly at this stage - this is already a big job for me!

I'm planning to do the 3 seals, waterpump, and thermostat, and thats enough for my plate at the moment, unless compelled .

Do you use loctite on the crank bolt?

Dave.

Good job. I still haven't gotten around to doing mine yet. Went to the local auto show this weekend though. Sube didn't have much of a display. Pretty sad. I did have a kid today though. Totally spent. Maybe I can do that pump job next weekend. I decided that I'm going to leave the radiator in again this time as well. Not sure if I'll mess with the oil pump if it's not leaking. How common is it for that thing to spring a leak after, say, 150k miles?

Dave

94L_wagon wrote:Thanks for the write up - very useful!

My timing belt job is on the horizon - 15k overdue already .

The concensus seems to be to do the oil pump seal - is this strictly needed at <100k? I don't fancy messing around with the oil pump needlessly at this stage - this is already a big job for me!

I'm planning to do the 3 seals, waterpump, and thermostat, and thats enough for my plate at the moment, unless compelled .

Do you use loctite on the crank bolt?

Dave.

With less then 100k I wouldn't worry about taking the oil pump off....just change the seals.....make sure you get the rear cam seal on the pass side too

Yes i use locktite on the crank bolt.....I used medium stuff and torqued to 120-140 ft/lbs

Gus wrote:Good job. I still haven't gotten around to doing mine yet. Went to the local auto show this weekend though. Sube didn't have much of a display. Pretty sad. I did have a kid today though. Totally spent. Maybe I can do that pump job next weekend. I decided that I'm going to leave the radiator in again this time as well. Not sure if I'll mess with the oil pump if it's not leaking. How common is it for that thing to spring a leak after, say, 150k miles?

Dave

Congrats on the kid.....I'm sure you'll be pretty busy from now on....

I've got 167k on mine.....I don't think the big issue is them leaking externally....it's the o-ring between the block and oil pump that have a tendancy to leak....that or the backing plate screws coming loose.....however with how tight mine were....I couldn't see that happening too often.

Thanks! Yeah, we'll see if I'll get around to doing that job now. Sucks that it was down yesterday when we had some nice snow. Almost wrecked the wagon twice because I'm used to driving on the Nokian tires on the Turbo. Those things are fully awesome. Anyway... thanks for the tips. I think I'll probably check the backing plate bolts on the oil pump and leave it be if it's not leaking.

Thanks and take care,

Dave

No prob

Take care