Can we determine the limit of efficiency for the AWIC?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:53 am

What type of power do you think the car is making?

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:57 am

210kw at the fly or so.

Makes 10kw more atw than a 1998 WRX STi

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:00 am

About 280HP crank. 5 runs is a good amount of distance, seems to me that the intercooler itself is fine just that you are running out of cold water.

I bet if you had a larger front heat exchanger (think of the size of a current WRX air unit) that it would do just fine. Like this for example http://www.permacool.com/Catalog/CatImages/PG11-C1.gif
Those are available in 3" x 3-3/4" x 12" , 3" x 5-3/4" x 14" , 3" x 7-1/4" x 14" , 3" x 9" x 14" and 3" x 10-3/4" x 14"

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:05 am

The radiator gave me about an extra 2 laps worth of power.

I've thought about a bigger exchange, but seems more trouble than it is worth.

Another thing I've thought about is moving the batt out of the way and make a tank to hold a couple more liters of water so it takes longer to heat up.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:35 am

You have no resovoir and you are able to run that long?! That makes me very happy.

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:38 am

Well that is how the stock setup was.

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:14 am

Ciper when you refer to a larger front heat exchanger.. are you talking about the radiator? I take it you are actually talking about the exchanger that sits on the eng/gearbox (JDM factory)

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:16 am

I guess I used different terms throughout my post, can you qoute the specific one in question?

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:18 am

ciper wrote:About 280HP crank. 5 runs is a good amount of distance, seems to me that the intercooler itself is fine just that you are running out of cold water.

I bet if you had a larger front heat exchanger (think of the size of a current WRX air unit) that it would do just fine. Like this for example http://www.permacool.com/Catalog/CatImages/PG11-C1.gif
Those are available in 3" x 3-3/4" x 12" , 3" x 5-3/4" x 14" , 3" x 7-1/4" x 14" , 3" x 9" x 14" and 3" x 10-3/4" x 14"

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:19 am

The one that outside air cools mounted behind the bumper. Most likely I will use two of the units mentioned.

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:23 am

Ahh okay then. Mine is double the factory one.

Looks like this

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:33 am

That looks great, do you have a larger image?

NuwanD · Post by **NuwanD** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:40 am

that's fooking huge.... maybe the stock pump hi-speed is not enough? the water must be getting cooled quick enough but the flow rate isn't enough to keep the heat exchanger at the TB cool?

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:40 am

Nope, that is from the MRT site, that is just two factory cores welded together. I'll get a pic of mine when I take the bumper off next time. That gives me about 7 laps about the track.

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:47 am

NuwanD wrote:that's fooking huge.... maybe the stock pump hi-speed is not enough? the water must be getting cooled quick enough but the flow rate isn't enough to keep the heat exchanger at the TB cool?

Good point, my pump is on hi speed. I'm thinking FMIC in the near future though.

Looks like Ciper and I were talking about the same thing.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:50 am

What is the average speed and length of each lap?

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:02 am

This is the circuit. Its the long way around

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/Tracks/manfeild.htm

I get about 5 or 6 laps from 10mins or so. Can't remember exactly because I'm pushing so hard

God I love that track

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:07 am

Would anyone have a pic of the heat exchanger (box ontop of the gbox/eng) cut open? Always wondered what it looks like inside.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:12 am

Do you guys see what he is saying?!

10mins of constant load on the car and the intercooler starts to heat up. Under normal driving that would be like 30 miles of highway at full throttle, I doubt any of you will ever hit that. Thats with the stock pump too

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:29 am

like i said its limits are about 300hp city driving at the fly in standard form, you would be pushing the limits with upgrades at about 350HP, the biggest thing that holds you back is the factory cooler (closest the throttle body) this is where i got up to, then had a look at customising the water/air and it worked out cheaper to get a FMIC to get the extra HP through it.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:33 am

He is near 300 and pushing the car far beyond what the majority of users will (10 minutes of hard driving). All he did was double the front heat exchanger too. The fluid isnt even moving faster and he has little extra capacity over stock.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:48 am

even with my standard setup, ( 15psi, VF12, 3" turbo back exhaust, pod filter, water/air cooler) i noticed that it heated up quickly and took time to cool the water, i have none of that now, and with the weight i have saved by getting rid of it, its a worthy option, especially because alot of you guys don't have an intercooler to begin with. so the money your looking to spend on the cooler + upgrades would be close to getting a FMIC straight off, and have the luxury of better performance (more so closer to redline) its great for street drags

a good topic http://www.mrtrally.com.au/forums/topic ... C_ID=14603

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:53 am

If the intercooler wasnt heating up then Id agree that the unit was too small.
However you say that it was heating up and taking too long to cool down, which points to fluid speed and heat removal and NOT the intercooler core itself.

If the AWIC can delay the need for air flow and store pre cooled water then wouldnt it be that its better suited for short bursts like the drags?

A front mount would be better suited for continous high speed.
Some of you may be shocked but I think that MY92 would be better off with a FMIC and not an air water unit

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:03 am

for the drags? yes and no, depends on the turbo, little turbo yes, bigger turbo no, for a stock turbo on your RS's yes, but if you went for a TD05 upgrade - no.

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:04 am

ciper wrote:If the intercooler wasnt heating up then Id agree that the unit was too small.
However you say that it was heating up and taking too long to cool down, which points to fluid speed and heat removal and NOT the intercooler core itself.

If the AWIC can delay the need for air flow and store pre cooled water then wouldnt it be that its better suited for short bursts like the drags?

A front mount would be better suited for continous high speed.
Some of you may be shocked but I think that MY92 would be better off with a FMIC and not an air water unit

That is exactly what I have lined up

I hope my info helps your quest Ciper. Puts a bit of all the rant on forums are the factory w-a i/c system to an end I hope.

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Can we determine the limit of efficiency for the AWIC?