Blinders

[BAC5.2]

Professor - You would know better than I, but doesn't the BMW SMG box STILL have a torque converter?

The only clutch based sequential I've ever heard of or seen is that dual-clutch based Audi box.

If it's got a torque converter instead of a flywheel, it's not coming near my car.

Tristan - Yea, convenience is important, and it's personal boundries. I can suffer the 10% of the time I drive in heavy traffic, and the 80% of the time where I am driving below the abilities of the car. I can deal with all of that, so I can enjoy the blissful serenity of mechanical glory for the 10% of the time where the radio is off, and I am driving with the car at 10/10ths. To me, there is something peaceful and calm about gating a gear. It adds pace and rythem to driving, when your flinging around back roads, it's nice to be in complete control of the attitude of the car. It's a feeling that can't be matched by ANY automatic, and it's an advantage over any mushy, power-robbing, torque converting slush-box.

I guess the auto-vs.-manual thing is entirely personal preference. If you feel that an auto adequately meets your needs and performs to the best of YOUR ability, then auto it is.

[professor]

the BMW 6 speed box as found on the M cars (and an option on some others in europe) is a manual gearbox that has a clutch disk, but is clutched with an electro-hydraulic unit that is deadly fast and accurate. You can choose to shift with the selector, the paddles, or use "auto" mode for totally automatic operation. it is considered faster than any human can shift.

It even rev-matches by blipping the throttle on downshifts.

Con your way to a test drive, it's cool !

[BAC5.2]

WOAH! I didn't know it was an actual clutched box. That's it. Dad, break out the platinum card, we're goin to the BMW dealership.

Doesn't the euro-tune have a "4k" mode, where it dumps the clutch at 4k? I remember reading something about that. I thought with a torque converter, that'd be murder. Now I have a bit more faith.

[evolutionmovement]

Ferrari/MAserati has a similar system as well as the F1 cars - they're electro-hydraulically actuated manuals. I still like a clutch.

Steve

[entirelyturbo]

The optional SMT in the Toyota MR2 Spyder is also an electro-hydraulically activated clutch. That's the only car I can think of that is a sequential manual without an automatic mode. No matter what, you will be shifting gears, but just sequentially and clutchlessly.

[dirty kru]

ok i cantfind it now but somewhere in this thread someone mentioned that mashing the throttle was a bad driving technique.
i disagree with this to some degree, obviously flooring the throttle anytime u need acceleration is wrong and will end up with you kissing the curb or worse, however in some situations you do require the full power of your car.

A situation that happened to me a few weeks ago comes to mind, i was driving downhill in my FWD legacy. The road is a twisty and fairly bumpy steep mountain road. Anyway on one of the corners i came in to hot and the arse of the car starting coming loose, my immediate response was to double declutch to 2nd and power out of it, my car being FWD is not to responsive coming out of oversteer and therefore to avoid hitting a rather large bank i floored it,absolutely mashed . The car pulled out of it quickly and i continued on my merry way.
If i was in an auto i dont think i would be typing right now.
This is biased because i have never given thought as to performance driving in an AT. The thought of needing to 'trick' your car into doing what you want seems ridiculous to me,why not do it your self?

"If you want it done right, do it yourself" Someone famous said that.

[LaureltheQueen]

after about halfway through page 2, I got tired of reading the thread, and I have to go to work, maybe once I get home, I can finish. I want to say this. I've had the opportunity to ride in 2 turbo legs, one with an automatic, and one with a manual. The SS(manual) feels torqueyer from the passenger seat(i've never driven it) than my TW does. I have no doubt that the SS could take my car in a straight line, but it would take a good driver to take me in corners. Not because of my suspension setup, but because I know EXACTLY how my transmission is going to react to my throttle. When I autocross, I leave the transmission in "D" because in manual mode, it seems to take longer to shift. I've been driving 4eat's for the last 2.5 years, and yes, it does take some getting used to, yes, I DO like driving manual, a lot. It's definitely more exciting and makes you feel like a better driver. Yes I feel like a goober driving an automatic, but I like it. I can drink my tea in the morning comfortably, and when driving spiritedly, I dont have to worry about where my hand is, or what gear I'm in. Guess what, when my tranny shifts, I'm already in-boost for the next gear. When my transmission craps out, I'll probably replace it with an auto, except with a sport-shift option if I can figure out how to wire it. My car is easy, and fun to drive, and serves no purpose to me except to give me driving pleasure. It's a station wagon, and no matter how "sporty" my transmission or suspension is, it will still be a station wagon, and handle like a station wagon(believe me). I love it for what it is, and don't expect more out of it. If I was going to get a car that I drove competitively, or did any serious performance driving in, I'd start with a better platform, probably a crx.

[douglas vincent]

Back to that part about the mt being spongy and hard to shift into gear part of the thread.

I have two 1990 legacies. One is a wagon (mine) and one is a sedan (the new one for the wife). My shifter is like a freaking race car compared to the new car. Mine snicks into gear, has a tight clutch break point and just feels like a precision clutch vehicle. My wifes on the other hand, is a spongy, mosslike transsmision. At this point I really dont know if this is becuase her clutch is SHOT BEYOND HELL as I just found out tonight, man is it gone, or if the tranny itself is whacked. God I hope the clutch is to blame. I dont want to replace the clutch and then find the tranny is bad.

But anyway, 5mt legacy trannies can be superquick and tight. Or you can drive my wifes car and wish for a worn auto in a Yugo and be better off.