Perfect power tuning and stuff thread

[Kelly]

My boss and I were discussing a quote the other day because we are swamped "its hard enough to get business, why would you ever turn it away?"

BUT deleting my posts, thats crap. To me that says they dont want anyone asking "hard" questions about their product and they would rather cover up problems than try to learn something and have an explanation when this happens to someone esle. becasue seriously this isnt good, I am getting DANgerous lean spots. Again if I hadn't been promised the "snake oil cure all" "this is the answer to all subaru swaps so you never have to do wiring again." If i would have known this now, i would have done the wiring. thats what I get for researching and for not being patient and just doing the wiring.

Sorry, I have no Idea why your posts were deleted.

I sat down at the computer today, and there were 150 emails from last night alone. Sean is an EXTREEMELY buisy boy these days. We are two men down, and have taken on a bunch of new R&D projects lately. We have no time to sit down and eat lunch most days.

You gotta remember that the PP6 is a tool. It is first and foremost in your best intrest to learn how to use it. I wish I had the awnsers you guys seek, but Im the wrench turner, not the computer guy. If I was, I would.
Also, the OBD1 cars, we rarelly ever work on. We havnt really done the R&D on wiring this thing up to the OBD1 computer, and I just havnt had the time to do one to my car yet.
It sounds like you guys are on the right track though, and Im sure I'll be revisiting this, or just pay doug o come down and do it for me

[bmxpunk]

props to josh!!!

so I went and messed with my pp as far as fueling some more.

Here is the map so far:

15), 000, 004, 006, 088, 103, 110, 127, 127, , 6200
14), 000, 0-4, 003, 081, 114, 102, 127, 127, , 5830
13), 000, 0-6, 000, 080, 114, 110, 125, 127, , 5476
12), 0-1, 0-3, 000, 078, 111, 115, 120, 127, , 5117
11), 0-6, 0-4, 001, 078, 109, 112, 118, 127, , 4744
10), 0-6, 0-3, 0-3, 070, 107, 111, 119, 127, , 4389
9), 0-4, 0-3, 0-1, 065, 105, 111, 108, 127, , 4027
, 0-4, 0-3, 0-3, 054, 100, 107, 110, 127, , 3662
7), 0-6, 0-3, 0-4, 046, 076, 101, 102, 127, , 3292
6), 0-6, 0-1, 0-1, 020, 060, 080, 097, 127, , 2930
5), 0-5, 0-2, 0-1, 003, 040, 075, 080, 101, , 2564
4), 0-4, 000, 0-1, 001, 038, 068, 076, 070, , 2203
3), 0-3, 0-1, 0-1, 000, 024, 038, 042, 050, , 1840
2), 0-2, 0-1, 0-1, 001, 010, 015, 039, 033, , 1478
1), 0-1, 000, 001, 001, 002, 010, 015, 020, , 1114
0), 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 010, 013, 020, , 750



I am still working on smoothing it out some but i ran out of gas as I pulled into work here. good thing I am carrying a 5 gallon tank as spare:D

also i got 237 miles out of this tank as opposed to 142 last time I filled up. empty tank both times.

[bmxpunk]

props to josh!!!

so I went and messed with my pp as far as fueling some more.

Here is the map so far:

15), 000, 004, 006, 088, 103, 110, 127, 127, , 6200
14), 000, 0-4, 003, 081, 114, 102, 127, 127, , 5830
13), 000, 0-6, 000, 080, 114, 110, 125, 127, , 5476
12), 0-1, 0-3, 000, 078, 111, 115, 120, 127, , 5117
11), 0-6, 0-4, 001, 078, 109, 112, 118, 127, , 4744
10), 0-6, 0-3, 0-3, 070, 107, 111, 119, 127, , 4389
9), 0-4, 0-3, 0-1, 065, 105, 111, 108, 127, , 4027
, 0-4, 0-3, 0-3, 054, 100, 107, 110, 127, , 3662
7), 0-6, 0-3, 0-4, 046, 076, 101, 102, 127, , 3292
6), 0-6, 0-1, 0-1, 020, 060, 080, 097, 127, , 2930
5), 0-5, 0-2, 0-1, 003, 040, 075, 080, 101, , 2564
4), 0-4, 000, 0-1, 001, 038, 068, 076, 070, , 2203
3), 0-3, 0-1, 0-1, 000, 024, 038, 042, 050, , 1840
2), 0-2, 0-1, 0-1, 001, 010, 015, 039, 033, , 1478
1), 0-1, 000, 001, 001, 002, 010, 015, 020, , 1114
0), 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 010, 013, 020, , 750



I am still working on smoothing it out some but i ran out of gas as I pulled into work here. good thing I am carrying a 5 gallon tank as spare:D

also i got 237 miles out of this tank as opposed to 142 last time I filled up. empty tank both times.

also what do you guys think about adding some timing 1-2 degrees when i am off boost-cruising style. I have tried it a little and there is no pinging. think it would help milage alittle and maybe power down low. if its not detonating is there a downside to it. i have tried a little and it seems to smooth out my idle, especially the "cam lop" quite a bit. idles at about 800-1000 depending.

[Legacy777]

If anyone doesnt download the zip file, you should. Josh either has WAY too much time on his hands, or has a secretary (male or female, your imagination) tied up in his garage.

Thanks Josh for you editing and notes!

EDIT!!!!!

Is it just me, or does all the highlighting block out the actual words?

No, I don't have have too much time on my hands.....and I wish I had a secretary...a hot female one....but I don't. This was just a by-product of me being extremely thorough

I had sticky notes on the pages I printed out...mainly for me, but I figured....hey...you guys would love to see it too

[Legacy777]

also what do you guys think about adding some timing 1-2 degrees when i am off boost-cruising style. I have tried it a little and there is no pinging. think it would help milage alittle and maybe power down low. if its not detonating is there a downside to it. i have tried a little and it seems to smooth out my idle, especially the "cam lop" quite a bit. idles at about 800-1000 depending.

Adding timing under cruising (no/low load conditions) should improve your mileage.

In addition to Kelly's comments about the PP being a tool....you should try and read up on the theory behind engine tuning. I've got a book. I haven't really read into it yet, but I know it's something I definitely want to read up on, and if that book isn't that good, I'll be looking for additional literature.

My approach is going to be to get as much data as I can with the stock engine management, and then tune from there, and as I add on pieces that require additional tuning, I can tweak as I go.

Doug and Tyler, your setups are a little different and while it might require a little more work, you should be able to end up with the same results.

[Legacy777]

props to josh!!!

so I went and messed with my pp as far as fueling some more.

Here is the map so far:

15), 000, 004, 006, 088, 103, 110, 127, 127, , 6200
14), 000, 0-4, 003, 081, 114, 102, 127, 127, , 5830
13), 000, 0-6, 000, 080, 114, 110, 125, 127, , 5476
12), 0-1, 0-3, 000, 078, 111, 115, 120, 127, , 5117
11), 0-6, 0-4, 001, 078, 109, 112, 118, 127, , 4744
10), 0-6, 0-3, 0-3, 070, 107, 111, 119, 127, , 4389
9), 0-4, 0-3, 0-1, 065, 105, 111, 108, 127, , 4027
, 0-4, 0-3, 0-3, 054, 100, 107, 110, 127, , 3662
7), 0-6, 0-3, 0-4, 046, 076, 101, 102, 127, , 3292
6), 0-6, 0-1, 0-1, 020, 060, 080, 097, 127, , 2930
5), 0-5, 0-2, 0-1, 003, 040, 075, 080, 101, , 2564
4), 0-4, 000, 0-1, 001, 038, 068, 076, 070, , 2203
3), 0-3, 0-1, 0-1, 000, 024, 038, 042, 050, , 1840
2), 0-2, 0-1, 0-1, 001, 010, 015, 039, 033, , 1478
1), 0-1, 000, 001, 001, 002, 010, 015, 020, , 1114
0), 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 010, 013, 020, , 750



I am still working on smoothing it out some but i ran out of gas as I pulled into work here. good thing I am carrying a 5 gallon tank as spare:D

also i got 237 miles out of this tank as opposed to 142 last time I filled up. empty tank both times.

Tyler,

This may be a stupid question, but your deflection/TPS voltage is setup the same as ours correct? Where you have a higher voltage with the throttle closed, then you have with the throttle open.

If so, I'm either reading the map wrong, or a little confused as to why you're doing what you're doing.

if the throttle starts out at the right side, then it looks like you are adding fuel at idle, and then it trims out as load increases. This just doesn't seem to make any sense....so like I said, I think I'm either mis-reading that map, or something's not right.

[bmxpunk]

NO remember, my deflection is coming from an MSG 3 bar map sensor.

[Legacy777]

NO remember, my deflection is coming from an MSG 3 bar map sensor.

Ahh...ok.

I think I asked you this, but how did you scale your MAP sensor for the deflection?

[bmxpunk]

it was more scaling the deflection to the map sensor.

It reads vaccum up to 28 psi (sensor puts out 5 volts at max)

now that I know you can actually scale the map sensor for the deflection, I just might have tor try that. Is that only in dos mode?

Dale at boxer 4 is looking into some other stuff for me as well.

What book do you have on engine management/tuning Josh? That is a good Idea, and especially eit xmas coming.

[Legacy777]

Yes, as of now, you can only scale the MAP sensor in dos. From what I read, it doesn't seem too difficult, as long as you have voltage/values for the sensor.

The book I have is "How to understand, service and modify bosch fuel injection & engine management"

It was recommended to me, but I haven't had time to read it. It's based on the initial fuel injection put out, but the basic principles haven't really changed much.

The ISBN # is 0-8376-0300-5

[Legacy777]

I was able to get some runs yesterday to try and calibrate the temp & map sensors. However when I went to interpolate some additional datapoints to check some numbers, I wasn't getting things to match up.

I looked in the FSM, and they actually list test points for the MAP sensor, so I should be able to extrapolate a top and lower end utilizing that. The temp sensor does give resistant readings at specific temperatures. Knowing that the reference voltage should be 5v, I should be able "ball park" things. That along with actual measured data should get me close. I'll keep this post updated.

[bmxpunk]

i shouldnt need to calibrate my map sensor because it is only used for the deflection, right? and scaling that is in gthe tool bar correct?

[douglas vincent]

I just lost my igniter........

Started the wagon this morning, drove my son to school and parked at the coffee shop. Got back in and it wouldnt start. Swapped in an extra igniter i had in the wagon and it started.

The Perfect Power very well may have been the cause of this because of the way it modifies the signals. But this is only of concern if you leave the key on and the car not running, which heats up the igniter and blows it.

I suggest you find an extra igniter and keep it in the glove box.

[bmxpunk]

so does this remove its reliability claim??

have you called me yet doug?

[douglas vincent]

I broke my cell phone (two pieces) and have not been home lately near my land line. My shop phone doesnt have long distance, I always used my cell


I don't know about the reliability of it. It could have just been the igniters time to go, it was 250k on it and 15 years, plus God knows what I have done to it.

As a rule though, you aren't supposed to keep the key in the on position without the motor running anyway.

But.....since it happened once, it might happen again. To me anyway, so i am keeping a spare igniter in the dash! Picked up two for $2.50 each at the u-pull-it.

[Legacy777]

i shouldnt need to calibrate my map sensor because it is only used for the deflection, right? and scaling that is in gthe tool bar correct?

Do you have your MAP sensor tied into the AMP input line? If so, then yes you need to in order for the perfect power to display the correct values. However it really doesn't mean shit if you're just using the pp as a gauge, and not really tuning by the AMP input.

I still don't know how you're able to scale the MAP sensor as your deflection without info on the sensor. Your "full boost" reading on the MAP sensor would be 100% deflection, and zero boost would probably be what you'd setup as 0% deflection. If you up your boost, or otherwise, you have to rescale the MAP sensor deflection.

[Legacy777]

The Perfect Power very well may have been the cause of this because of the way it modifies the signals. But this is only of concern if you leave the key on and the car not running, which heats up the igniter and blows it.

I suggest you find an extra igniter and keep it in the glove box.

How Does the PP modify the signal to cause the ignitor to blow? The PP isn't active at startup anyway.

[douglas vincent]

Sean said that since the PP is modifying the ignition, the way that we hook up the wiring makes the igniter "hot" when the key is in the on position.

It must have something to do with #20 wire and #17 wire. They must be giving a signal to the igniter from the PP when the key is on.

I will try to ask Sean again about this for sure tommorrow.

[bmxpunk]

i shouldnt need to calibrate my map sensor because it is only used for the deflection, right? and scaling that is in gthe tool bar correct?

Do you have your MAP sensor tied into the AMP input line? If so, then yes you need to in order for the perfect power to display the correct values. However it really doesn't mean shit if you're just using the pp as a gauge, and not really tuning by the AMP input.

I still don't know how you're able to scale the MAP sensor as your deflection without info on the sensor. Your "full boost" reading on the MAP sensor would be 100% deflection, and zero boost would probably be what you'd setup as 0% deflection. If you up your boost, or otherwise, you have to rescale the MAP sensor deflection.

My deflection never goes to 100% becasue it is a 3 bar map sensor so at 28psi is when it is putting out all 5 volts. at idle which is full vaccum, is when it reads the lowest so this is my lowest deflection point. so when the car is off but the ignitoin is on, my cursor on the perfect power is at about 33% becasue 0 manifold pressure is read as a higher voltage than idle on the pp. then from there it goes into boost. So if my defelction range were 0-100% I would read full vaccum to zero ( 1 bar) and then zero to 28 psi ( 2 bar) for a total of three bar. My deflection range right now is 10%-70% but the last two columns arent used yet becasue I havent upped my boost past 8 or 9psi.

is that making more sense. maybe ask sean, he might explain it better.

No I havent hooked up the amp input yet but i think i might

[Legacy777]

Sean said that since the PP is modifying the ignition, the way that we hook up the wiring makes the igniter "hot" when the key is in the on position.

It must have something to do with #20 wire and #17 wire. They must be giving a signal to the igniter from the PP when the key is on.

I will try to ask Sean again about this for sure tommorrow.

Hmmm....yeah those damn pull-up resistors. I don't 100% understand that. I posted the question on the perfect power forum, and got an answer....but still trying to grasp it all the way.

[Legacy777]

i shouldnt need to calibrate my map sensor because it is only used for the deflection, right? and scaling that is in gthe tool bar correct?

Do you have your MAP sensor tied into the AMP input line? If so, then yes you need to in order for the perfect power to display the correct values. However it really doesn't mean shit if you're just using the pp as a gauge, and not really tuning by the AMP input.

I still don't know how you're able to scale the MAP sensor as your deflection without info on the sensor. Your "full boost" reading on the MAP sensor would be 100% deflection, and zero boost would probably be what you'd setup as 0% deflection. If you up your boost, or otherwise, you have to rescale the MAP sensor deflection.

My deflection never goes to 100% becasue it is a 3 bar map sensor so at 28psi is when it is putting out all 5 volts. at idle which is full vaccum, is when it reads the lowest so this is my lowest deflection point. so when the car is off but the ignitoin is on, my cursor on the perfect power is at about 33% becasue 0 manifold pressure is read as a higher voltage than idle on the pp. then from there it goes into boost. So if my defelction range were 0-100% I would read full vaccum to zero ( 1 bar) and then zero to 28 psi ( 2 bar) for a total of three bar. My deflection range right now is 10%-70% but the last two columns arent used yet becasue I havent upped my boost past 8 or 9psi.

is that making more sense. maybe ask sean, he might explain it better.

No I havent hooked up the amp input yet but i think i might

Ok, I understand the setup, but I'm still curious if that setup is the best setup. I guess it probably is, since you're load changes even in the vacuum range and such. Only thing I can see is when you're slowing down the vacuum reading is going to be lower then it is at idle, so you're not really getting an accurate deflection reading below your idle point.

What you could try doing is using a computer power supply....(I think they have a +5v source in there), hook it up to the map, use a vacuum pump with an accurate gauge, suck the vacuum down to like the lowest vacuum you've seen, and look at the corresponding voltage. Use that as your zero point. Maybe you just want to use idle....I'm not sure.....

[bmxpunk]

Josh yes idling and decelerating have been a sort of Compromise, but not too bad. I sont know which is best to run the thing a tad lean on decel or fuel barfing rich at idle. It hasnt been too big of a problem though. Sean said that this would be the most accurate way of tuning and this is how their turbo kits are set up inconjunction with the perfect power. i suppose I could lower my deflection scale a bit to where its idles and cruises in the second column and decelerates in the first. maybe I will try that. especially since I can now save the maps YEAH DOUG!!!!!!! thanks

[Legacy777]

Yeah, that's a good idea, just shift your map to the right, so you can handle both circumstances.

[bmxpunk]

I will try it, i am working some stuff out with doug over the tele currently.

[Legacy777]

One other thing I'm looking into now is datalogging. The windows software saves the file as a raw file, and allows playback. I would prefer having the actualy raw data in numbers. The raw file doesn't appear to do this.

The dos software will allow you to log all the data to a file and then import it into excel.

I'm going to verify that the windows version can't do it.....I'll update my notes for the dos manual. It talks about how to datalog in it.