legacycentral bbs

Matt Monson LOL.

bmxpunk no i dont have paper charts, i can tell you what paul at neetronics siad and i have seen. a/f at idel is 14.00 a/f when hit full pedal is at 11.00. our ej22t love lots of timing and not alot of gas. driveabilty is perfect like it came factory, when i turn the boost up to 20psi a/f is perfect. no lean spots no burps no missing no pinging. and he could not belive that my car does not ping with such high timing.

Damn ip changed on the cable modem.

Here's the ECU pics

1990 Legacy n/a MT Hitachi ECU

1992 Legacy n/a MT JECS ECU

1991 Turbo Legacy Hitachi ECU

Thanks for the photos!

Here is Nicos


Here is a 91 Turbo


NOTE!!!!! The numbers on both ECUs on the bottom are the same.

Its pretty obvious that there are ALOT of differences between the years 90-94 in actual ECU design and layout, even if they basically do the same shit.

If you guys want, I can crack open my ECU and get some pics for another data point.....

Anything I should avoid doing so I don't fry my ECU?

douglas vincent you see how my ecu does not have the blue thing, there is one more that has no chip on the bottom, it use those blue conetors with a huge chip in a plastec blue shell that conects on top of that blue plug.

also i have never seen another ecu that looks lilke mine, all them have that blue prong, + the ones that use no bottom chip and have a huge blue chip stacker.

m/t 91 turbo cars came with my special single chip in and out deal, if it has a the blue thing then its a auto matico.

So NICO, did they just replace that chip?

The pics of my 91 turbo ECU is from an AT.

Hi Nico, good job man, and I would like to know how much did Pual or andy charge you?
Also, would the 91 AT turbo ECU will do the remap? I do have a 91 AT turbo ECU in my garage. If it could be use on the MT, then I will take it to do the remap and save the stock ECU incase if it has problem.

Good to hear the local turn shop could do us some magic....time to give them a call !!

Ben

The 91 AT should be able to be tuned, and should work fine on your MT.

It appears the chip in the center of the "blue daughter board attachment?" would be removeable and replaceable with a socket. By the look of Nico's ECU this is what they did. The only thing that appears different on Nico's is the small for pin connecter just above and to the right of the chip.


When I head home tonight, I will crack open my ECU and have a look.

I have done this on mitsubishi ECU's.

Perhaps this will allow some new options.

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php? ... ucts_id=57

in conjunction with this:

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php? ... ucts_id=68

I am likely going to be buying one of these for my VR4, maybe it will be even more useful!!

Josh,

Would the stuff that you posted work for our ECU's?

I also like the looks of the autoprom package they have listed. Also, you get a discount if you own either one of those and buy the TunerPro software.

edit:

Think something like this would work?

Maybe this?

I do not know if it would work for sure. however if it does I will let you know.

Let me clarify on my last post, I have socketed ecu's not used this tuing tool.

I have a few too many pans in the fire now, but hopefully in the next few months I should be able to give this a shot.

I believe the Tunerpro software is free to download, they ask for a donation (30 bux) if you are going to use it.

Woah! There's a lot here...

I'm really curious about what Paul found. In my explorations of the Hitachi ECU it seemed that the ECU didn't actually have a fuel map per se but rather just a relatively small number of parameters defining fueling computations. The ignition timing maps were pretty sophisticate though.

'Course, I didn't have a $6500 machine made for this purpose. That Techtom dealie looks neat.

Nico - if the ECU can't see the actual boost level and it's cutting fuel, then it's not overboost fuel cut. Are you sure it's not just misfire at high boost or something? 17 psi is enough to blow out a marginal spark.

Splinter - The bleed FCD is described in a sticky thread started by morgie.

Ryan - The Japanese computer he's talking about is a tool apparently used to analyze the stock ECU.

Doug - The ECU you have pictured there is a JECS ECU. Turbos use Hitachis, like your stock one.

Matt - Yeah, how did I also miss this thread?!

Nico - I think your ECU is actually pretty much the same as all other turbo models. You can ask Paul about this, but it appears that he removed the blue reverse socket dealie that you can see in pictures of other Hitachi ECUs so that he could access the EPROM.

The neat thing is that the pins of that blue reverse socket thingie actually match up to the EPROM's pins, and that the EPROM's chip select is driven through a pull-down (or something, it's been a while so I don't remember exactly, but that's the gist of it) so you can override it, disabling the
stock ROM and replacing it with your own.

So if you do this right, you don't need to do any soldering on the ECU itself. That's what the blue socket is for. It's just a weird design.

This is awesome.

I would love to hold onto the stock ECU if I could chip and tune it for >$200.

IronMonkeyL255 wrote:This is awesome.

I would love to hold onto the stock ECU if I could chip and tune it for >$200.

now thats what im talkin about! i'd do the same thing!


heheh we could all make a cross-the-continent trip to get our cars tuned.

vrg3 wrote:Woah! There's a lot here...

In my explorations of the Hitachi ECU it seemed that the ECU didn't actually have a fuel map per se but rather just a relatively small number of parameters defining fueling computations. The ignition timing maps were pretty sophisticate though.



So if you do this right, you don't need to do any soldering on the ECU itself. That's what the blue socket is for. It's just a weird design.

Did you happen to keep the locations of the fuel look up code? By slightly altering these perameters you should be able to scale back the injector pulse for larger injectors.

I was looking at the blue socket, it appears to have 30 pins (if I can count right) and the chip is a 28 pin chip. I wonder what the extra pins are for? Even more so I wonder of the availability of the other half of the blue chip stacker?

IronMonkeyL255 wrote:This is awesome.

I would love to hold onto the stock ECU if I could chip and tune it for >$200.

From talking with the guys at Neetronics, the cost would be quite a bit more then $200.

What would we be looking at cost wise compared to a stand alone?

And what are going to be the pros/cons of each?

Like my case, I am gonna need something to tune my new motor plus new turbo and larger injectors. But the climate where I lives changes drastically and quickly so things like cold start and such are important.

Also reliability and adaptability for small mods that I might add on later?

From talking with them it sounded like it'd be a couple hundred bucks to tune. However they are not in my backyard....so the cost goes up if you consider driving up there, shipping the car, or even flying them down here, paying for their expenses and time.

I unfortunately don't know if what he was quoting me was in CAD or US dollars.

The one thing I really don't like about tuning the stock ECU, or at least having someone else do it, is that I can't tweak things myself if I change something later. Or even have data logging capability.

The benefit is you still should have the drivability of a stock car if tuned properly.

Stand alone probably has a higher initial investment, but assuming you can tune locally, the costs are probably going to be a wash between the two.

The stand alone would give you the tweaking and logging capability, but you may lose some drivability, depending on the capabilities of the stand alone ecu.

ben

about the price i paid it was a very good deal 1250, it might sound high but i learned so much about my motor and ecu. it was like a 2week coarse with the boys at neetronics good times.

+ i paved the most thickest path for anyone wantting to tune the baddest subaru motor, tips and tricks i would say, so life in tuneing this car is so easy now.

vikash i did not or paul take out that blue socket thing, my ecu came like that stock. i have 5 stock legacy turbo ecu from cars i own, there all automatic and have this blue socket thing going on. my first turbo legacy that started it all was a 5 speed and had this ecu stock.

i still got to bring paul a ecu with one of the blue socket to look at and see if he can tune it.

also about the boost cut? your right it was not a boost cut i whent back and paul tuned it perfect, he seen something and its PERFECT now.

Josh Long - Last time I was playing with this stuff I was still trying to figure out the code that computed injector pulse widths.

This is all from memory, again, but I believe one of the extra pins isn't connected to anything, and the other is connected to the chip select pin, which gives you a convenient spot to override the pull-down.

I don't know if you can buy the proper mating connector, but I was able to use a pair of 15-SIP sockets.

Josh - I can't speak to Paul's skill in particular, but if one is actually remapping things, I don't think you can say that you retain the driveability of a stock car. You have the driveability of a car that was tuned for however long the tuner had the car.

Nico - Huh, interesting. Well, aside from the absence of the socket, that ECU looks pretty much the same as all other turbo ECUs I've seen.

vrg3 wrote:Josh - I can't speak to Paul's skill in particular, but if one is actually remapping things, I don't think you can say that you retain the driveability of a stock car. You have the driveability of a car that was tuned for however long the tuner had the car.

Very true.

humm......

my '91 Legacy Trubo ECU is the same.....has same numbers too. But it's an auto.....what wires do I have to mess with? Because I have the COMPLETE ECU and Harness along with the auto tranny control unit.

IIRC, auto and manual ECU's were the same...