legacycentral bbs

Hey IHI info seekers, I tried to send this a couple of days ago but
seems like my regular emails to the list are not making it, so this
is a direct post. Anybody else noticing something fishy please let
me know.

Here's, info on IHI turbos for the overseas market. Lots of which
you guys are switching to.

Go to the MRT website Performance Section

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/

Click on Technical Info and Tips

Right at the top you will see

Turbo Data PDF: IHI Specifications & Comparisons Sheet (170Kb.)

Click on it (I think You need to have Adobe Acrobat)

Bet you a dollar you will find some good info

There is a great chart at the link with tech specs that do not
translate into the format the BC-BF list will accept.

Here's some meat and potatoes

Typical applications

The "VF" series of turbo's all have straight inlet paths, so when
fitting to early Legacy/Liberty and WRX's they need major changes
to the compressor housing to take the elbow inlet. OR a modified
inlet manifold is required.

All VF series turbo's are manufactured by IHI, Japan

Typically all Sti models come with a IHI turbo, and All WRX's
come with a Mitsubishi turbo.

WRX's Ver 1,2,3 all came with TD05 turbo's with a 90 degree
elbow inlet, whilst the later Ver 4 and 5 came with a TD04 that had a
straight inlet path and was slightly smaller for better bottom end
performance and less lag.

All VF turbo's and older units have built in waste gates.

VF22
WRX Japanese domestic market
Best turbo for high output engine. Highest capacity of all IHI
"STi" turbo's. OK for high boost or stroker engines. Best
fitted with cars that at least have a front mount intercooler. Not
recommended for really big boost stroker engines or cars that run
over 25 psi boost. Same Turbine housing and wheel as a VF23 (20) with
larger Compressor housing. Only fit this turbo if you have at least
an exhaust, front mount intercooler and air inlet mods. Its good also
if you plan internal engine mods. This turbo has the most lag of all
the VF series.

VF23
Sti Ver 3 June 1996
Good all round turbo with straight inlet path Same compressor housing
and wheel as a VF24 with larger Turbine housing (20). Great turbo for
mildly modified cars and those who are unsure of their plans for the
future

VF24
STi ver 4, June 1997
Common for Group N rally cars and has good bottom end. Not
recommended for stroker engines or engines with high boost as turbo
is small and can over speed. Same compressor housing and wheel as a
VF23 with smaller Turbine housing (18) Best turbo for Auto's and
cars that want the best bottom end and least lag.

VF28
STi Ver 5, June 1998.
Basically the same as VF24

VF29
WRX Japanese domestic market
Basically the same as VF24 except has a different location for the
pressure hose on the waste gate actuator Compressor wheel is slightly
different.

VF30
STi ver 7Oct 2000
A totally new design and shape "VF" series turbo. Common on
Group A rally cars where more capacity is required than is possible
with the VF24. Good turbo as compromise between the VF23 and VF22, as
it has the same size turbine housing as a VF24 and a compressor
housing similar to a VF 22. A relatively new turbo to the market and
still being "tried and tested" early indications are it will
replace the VF 23, with slightly more capacity.

Garret 400 HP
Bolts to manifold ok, but requires some modifications to fit due to
size of compressor housing. Also requires minor mods to oil drains
and supply lines. Should only be fitted with at least a Electronic
Boost controller and works best with a whole new ECU. Designed for
cars that are going to run over 20 psi and produce over 200Kw at the
wheels (4WD 4th gear)

Garret 450 – 500HP
Similar spec to 400 hp just bigger!
Bolts to manifold ok, but requires some modifications to fit due to
size of compressor housing. Also requires minor mods to oil drains
and supply lines. Should only be fitted with at least a Electronic
Boost controller and best with a whole new ECU. For cars that are
going to run in excess of 20 psi and over 200Kw at the wheels (4WD 4
th gear), IE Stroker's, big head work and CAMs.

OK Guys, how's that?

Thank you Brett Middleton

OK, Who owes me a dollar?

Larry Witherspoon

Now, come on Larry, info is great and appreciated, but I think you will
agree that the dollar will not be forthcoming unless you can give us some
more, relevant to the Liberty/Legacy! Question: Will a TD05 give more
horsepower on a standard boost Liberty than an IHI RHB52? There really
seems to be limited info on the turbos used in the Liberty.
Ross

Also, not to make it a shameless plug, but we have some good info on our site as well about the IHI range

Adam

The TDo5 isa a MUCh higher capacity turbo than the Rh52 series used in the Liberty/Legacy. If I am not mistakem the TD05 has a 16G wheel in it, same as fitted to virtually all JDM market Evo's from the Evo 3- Evo 6. As an example, my Galant VR4 ran this same turbo, and the car puts out around 350 hp or so, and ran consistent mid 12's in the quarter mile at 108 mph. Granted I have fuel mods and other things done to the GVR4, but you get the idea...and the GVR4 weighs alot more than a Legacy does!

Adam

I have a TD05 on my 94 UK legacy it runs 270 bhp annd full boost comes on at 3500rpm, a bit more laggy than stock but the plus point is that it keeps pulling all the way to red line, @1.1bar

The RHB52 will pull all the way to redline in a stock Liberty RS turbo. I thought the Evos had a "dual scroll" turbo? made of titanium? Is this a later model TD05? Maybe will fit in a liberty?
Ross

the dual scross is a later design, the ti internals are even more limited and not fitted with any rhyme or reason..some get them, others didn't. The wheels though in the TD05 WRX units are very similar in sie to an Evo 3 (16G compressor)

Totally different bolt pattern than the Subaru though..Subarus use a proprietary flange design that is Garret based on the downpipe side (looks like a T3, but spacing is different) and unique on the up-pipe (manifold) side.

Adam

Man, here I thought I was so hot with all this turbo stuff in my last
post which listed info for a whole bunch of IHIs, a few Mitsus, and a
couple of Garretts.

Then Ross comes along and trys to blow me out of the water with the
following;

Now, come on Larry, info is great and appreciated, but I think you
will agree that the dollar will not be forthcoming unless you can
give us some more, relevant to the Liberty/Legacy! Question: Will a
TD05 give more horsepower on a standard boost Liberty than an IHI
RHB52? There really seems to be limited info on the turbos used in
the Liberty.
Ross

OK Ross, I admit, there doesn't seem to be that much info directed
towards the Legacy/Liberty. That's because it kind of came and went
(except for a knowledgeable few) before it had a chance to become
popular. The Liberty RS which started the ball rolling back around
89, was designed by Subaru engineering without the mainstream
concessions most cars are hamstrung by. It was kind of an experiment
to see if the engineering department had the talent to design a car
which would be competitive on the world rally circuit. After only a
couple of years on the circuit, it had served notice to the WRC crowd
that Subaru was a legitimate new player, and the competition
responded to the challenge with cars of their own. Subaru upped the
ante with the lighter more nimble Imprezza in 93, using the same
powerplant that had been employed by the Liberty, and that's when
popularity really took off. A year later and Turbo Legacy production
was history. What was the point with all the turbo freaks buying
WRXs and STis? The WRX is still peaking in popularity and after
three quarters of a decade, some people working at Subaru dealers
don't even know there was ever a Turbo Legacy in production.

So why the history lesson? Because the powerplant in the WRX, and
its' associated accessories (e.g. turbo) are direct descendants of
the 2.0 Liberty engine, and were the same when both were in
production back in 93-94. Now the engine's evolved a bit in the New
Age WRX, but just about any info you can find about turbos for the
basic Subaru STi/WRX H4 2.0 EJ20T is good for the basic Liberty EJ2X
turbo engine. The closed deck EJ22 is the Cinderella step sister,
with actually more potential once you get it to breath. It's just
that so few users are out there, what little info there is gets
buried by all the stuff that's directed at the WRX masses. Luckily
for us, most of the WRX info is good for us too.

So now finally to answer your question. (That'll learn ya to waylay
all those dollars I had coming in)

QUESTION: Will a TD05 give more horsepower on a standard boost
Liberty than an IHI RHB52?

ANSWER: Yes it will. Almost any of the other turbos Subaru uses will
give more horsepower than the RHB52, which I believe is the smallest
turbo used on the EJ20/EJ22 engines, and is intended to provide quick
spool up and low end torque for the unknowledgeable, unappreciative,
unworthy, North American market. The TD05 is a monster by
comparison, and is intended to provide big top end power. It's so big
in fact, that you may not be happy with it on the street, because
that big top end boost pays a price with big low end lag.

For more info go here;
Nice article from Autospeed - WRX Enhancement Turbos - Starts off
with a discussion of your TD05

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0886/page1.h ... uggestions

Just happened to surf across this "Junkyard Turbo List"
Lots of different cars and their turbos so you know what to look for
in a junkyard. Subaru was conspicuous by their absence!

http://www.gamesbbs.com/~turbosi/junkya ... _list.html

So Ross, is that better?

Larry Witherspoon