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Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:52 am**

Hey guys,

I'm in California. After reading what everyone in here has to say about the merits of the ej22t, I've decided that it's the engine that I want in my 93 Impreza. The problem is finding the engine that is the same year or newer than my car. I guess the law says the engine you are swapping in has to be the same year or or newer, but most of what I've found are from 91 or 92's, older than my car. Sooo...unless I find a 93 or newer motor I would not be able to pass BAR inspection in California...or could I???

I mean if I get an engine and not know what year car it came from and do not have a VIN # could they trace the year of the engine through the engine code or serial#? If they can't, I can say that the engine is from a 93 or 94 legacy turbo, right, and be legal?

I really want this engine in my old Impreza. It's the perfect sleeper engine. I figure from what everyone says, with intercooler and mbc, I could easily get 220 hp with stock turbo and stock internals. At 2400lbs, those WRX's won't know what hit them.

Thanks for any advise.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:22 am**

I wouldnt waste the time. At best find a 93-94 shell without an engine that hasnt had this done and tell them the 91 engine came from it. Get the person to sign the title over to you for the 93-94.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:53 am**

Wouldn't waste the time in putting it in the Impreza? And you're telling me I should instead waste time in looking for a 93-94 turbo legacy shell? That doesn't make anysense?

This was my question:

I mean if I get an engine and not know what year car it came from and do not have a VIN # could they trace the year of the engine through the engine code or serial#? If they can't, I can say that the engine is from a 93 or 94 legacy turbo, right, and be legal?

Your comment of don't waste your time doesn't help at all. Do you have something against an Impreza getting an ej22t transplant?

If it's a waste of time please illuminate me as to why it is a waste of time considering that 1. I'm getting a known bulletproof engine (best engine Subaru made?). 2. I'm getting a high potential engine (an engine that I can take up to 400hp if I really wanted to and has awesome torque).

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:02 am**

I think he meant don't waste your time trying to find a 93-94 engine, just find a 93-94car and any year ej22t and say ej came from the 93-94 car.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:50 am**

THAWA: You got it.

Zendriver: You need to ask around for the local honda engine swap guys. It should actually be easier for you, since subaru engine swaps are so rare (except for Vanagon conversions)

I could be wrong but I dont think they could tell if your EJ22T came from a 91-94. Even the board members might have a hard time if you asked them to.

Check with what the DMV requires on an Engine Change (swap is a foreign word to them). For me Im lucky enough to have purchased the entire vehicle, so I have the Title and all.

Here is a useful (though a little tough to read at first)

4161. (a) Whenever a motor vehicle engine or motor is installed, except temporarily, in a motor vehicle which is identified on the ownership and registration certificates by motor or engine number or by both the motor and frame numbers and subject to registration under this code, the owner of the motor vehicle shall, within 10 days thereafter, give notice to the department upon a form furnished by it containing a description of the motor vehicle engine or motor installed, including any identifying number thereon and the date of the installation. The owner of the motor vehicle shall also submit to the department with the notice the certificate of ownership and registration card covering the motor vehicle in which the motor vehicle engine or motor is installed and evidence of ownership covering the new or used motor vehicle engine or motor installed and such other documents as may be required by the department.

(b) Upon receipt of motor vehicle engine or motor change notification and other required documents, the department shall assign a distinguishing vehicle identification number to motor vehicles, other than motorcycles or motor-driven cycles registered under a motor number or motor and frame numbers. When the distinguishing vehicle identification number is placed on the vehicle as authorized, the vehicle shall thereafter be identified by the distinguishing identification number assigned.

9257. Every notice of the installation in a vehicle of a motor vehicle engine or motor required to be filed under Section 4161 shall be accompanied by a filing fee of two dollars ($2).

And the best of all
4163. The owner of three or more motor vehicles is not required to notify the department or to pay the fee required under Section 9257 when motor vehicle engines or motors owned by him are installed in or transferred between the motor vehicles owned by him until the motor vehicle is sold, transferred, or otherwise disposed of by him.

Here is a picture of the tag you get, notice you have no mention of the engine specifics (only size and such)

From http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Chevro ... _Smog.html

Call this number 800/622-7733 its the referee place. They make apointments to inspect the car.

Read this http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/StdPage.as ... n_1994.htm

BTW, dont be so damn sensitive.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:16 am**

Thanks Ciper, that was very helpfull.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:11 am**

As a former Californian and Honda hybrid guy I might be able to lend a little insight. The year of the engine isn't really going to be something they will be able to tell and should really be a non-issue. When the early B16 swaps were being scammed through the BAR referee process, we would tell the Ref that they were out of an '92 or '93 Del Sol because that was the only car the engine was sold in in the states. But these were JDM imported B16's from '89 or '90 civic type-R's.

The key is the stockness of the whole set up. It is a little extra work, but set it up exactly like a USDM 1994 Turbo Legacy. In particular, you will want a stock air box and snorkus, all required emission controls like both cats and a functioning stock ECU wired in. It should be as clean and as stock as possible to pass the visual. And of course you are going to pass tailpipe because all the emissions stuff is hooked up and functioning.

Then once you get the little BAR sticker designating your car as legal. You can get a nice fat catless downpipe and high flow cat and wire in a boost gauge and controller and etc....When you go to smog it at the regular smog station, as long as you keep it tuned right, you'll still pass tialpipe and the tech won't care about the rest since you have a fancy BAR sticker on your doorjamb...

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:20 am**

Matt Monson: Did you ever actually go with someone to the referee? (just curious)

I have a question for you regarding how they know about the engine. How do you prove what car its from? You say tell them its from a del sol, but what document do you provide to back it up?

I could say my engine is from a 94 legacy when in fact I stole someones 91 legacy and took the engine out.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:41 am**

No, I never went in front of a referee myself. I just didn't tell the smog technician that it was a swapped engine and he just tested it and passed it as stock because it looked stock. I had freinds go in front of the ref, but never went with them. Plus, it has been over 5 years since I was involved in any of this stuff and my memory bites...

To my understanding the referee actually looks up the car you claim as the donor in their little book and verify that the spec number matches what the book says it should be for the particular car. And them they check what emissions gooides it should have, whether is should be OBDI or II and whatnot...But you don't have to have the car it came from. When you buy a rebuilt Chevy 350 from a yard do they give you any paperwork that has a vin# on it? I don't think they do (Though I have only ever bought Japanese engines from Japan).

One way you could further verify that you don't need a vin# is to contact these guys: http://www.4subarusuzukikiaparts.com and ask them if you were to buy an EJ25 or some other engine from them what kind of paperwork would they provide for you to make your car legal.

Or contact the guys at www.I-speed.com since swaps are their business, and ask them a bit about the referee process. They are constantly posting on NASIOC about doing swaps and have always been real helpful when I have asked them a question via e-mail.

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:52 am**

why do u even have to tell anyone? i know tons of guys with stangs with 5.0s still with them registrd as a 4! as long as u got a inspection sticker on your car and under the hood look stock looking i dont think it would throw a flag. i mean u get pulled over by the srteam and they pop you hood and see a benz v12 or sumtin maybe. how is this inforced? i dont get it

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:39 am**

I know that you've thought about the ej22T engine, but have you thought of the 2.5 Turbo? You'd get more torque for sure. It is a newer engine, the only downside will be the price, and probably the emissions control system since it will be more complicated.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2003 7:50 pm**

HomeSlice wrote:why do u even have to tell anyone? i know tons of guys with stangs with 5.0s still with them registrd as a 4! as long as u got a inspection sticker on your car and under the hood look stock looking i dont think it would throw a flag. i mean u get pulled over by the srteam and they pop you hood and see a benz v12 or sumtin maybe. how is this inforced? i dont get it

Homeslice,
California is a whole different ball of wax than many states. If it was an EJ25 swap into a 1.8l Impreza I would agree with your logic. But if the smog tech sees that little snail shell called a turbo on the car you are forked. When they type you into the system based on your vin it tells the guy it is a SOHC NA engine in there. Maybe you can get by it. I did with a DOHC NA Honda engine in a SOHC car, but it is a risky proposition. But my engine was never sold in the states at all and when I spoke to the BAR referee on the phone I was told there was no way to pass that engine. But if there is a way to do it legally, my 2 cents is to make the extra effort and get the sticker and be safer...

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:49 pm**

Hey Matt,

Someone on another forum said that I would have to have the Vin# that the motor came from?

What if they don't have this # anymore?

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:36 am**

Give me a couple days. I have some e-mails out to people in California that I know from my Honda days. I'll get you the correct answer and post back...and if it comes down to it that you need a VIN, myself or others here know of Turbo Lecagies that aren't running and can get you one.

Hell, you could even make one up(using the correct format of course) and unless it was registered in California they would never know if it was for a car that was registered in Florida or Colorado or New Jersy, etc... But by no means am I advocating breaking the law.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:42 pm**

I thought I was home free...

Then I asked about the ECU. "When you check the ECU will it give you a code stating that it's the engine was a 91?" The answer is YES. The EPA has different information on different model years and the data is stored in the ECU.

So you can get away saying that the engine is from a 93 when it's actually from a 91 because the BAR referee will basically take your word for it (okay, they need some kind of document saying like an invoice from the seller) but it doesn't have to be official.

The problem is that the ECU will give you away. Damn!

So if you have a 93 engine and 91 ECU you're screwed, but if you have a 91 engine and 93 ECU you're good to go.

This sucks. Now I have to find another ej22t.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:57 pm**

So the plain OBD1 reader can tell the year? Interesting...

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:23 pm**

I don't think it can. Some other people told me it can't I asked CCR Engines, but they're not sure. I asked another engine supplier and he says all the ECU will say is that it's a 2.2 turbo.

So, can OBD I ECU tell what year? I don't think the BAR ref is accurate on this fact.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:25 pm**

so why not just get an ecu from a 93-94?

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:32 pm**

Or maybe someone nice would let you borrow an ECU from a 93-94 if needed.......

In investigating this lets also check if the ECU tells the difference between Federal emissions and California emissions.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:59 pm**

Yeah that'd be nice, or even rent it for a small fee, and no better place to ask than here

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:01 pm**

btw zen, if you are looking for a turbo engine, there's a turbo car with frontend dmg at the pick-n-pull in rancho cordova, ca I don't think anthing came in contact with the engine, it's only got 67k miles on it. I think it's still there, but its been a few weeks since I looked I think they sell engines for a few hundred bucks. This is all assuming you are in the area.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:44 pm**

Great infoTHAWA, but why doesn't this place have a phone #.

I think Rancho Cordova is up north. I'd have to drive there and actually take it apart myself.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:42 am**

yeah I don't know either, i called 411 for a phone number but they never pick up I think I've still got it, yep (916) 852-0316 (it's the one on dismantle ct, the other is for domestic cars). If they don't have it still, which I doubt, the cars been sitting there for a good 2-3 months, theres always that subaru suzuki kia place. They usually have a bunch of parts, and they are located on the same street, about a block away, but you're going to pay a lot more. If you need some help with taking the engine out or apart, I could probably make my way down there so long as mine isnt acting up.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:59 am**

Thanks THAWA,

Sounds good...I'll have to think about this option. It sounds like a good deal though.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:06 am**

ciper wrote: In investigating this lets also check if the ECU tells the difference between Federal emissions and California emissions.

The only reason there would be a difference would be if they did a 49 states Legal and a CA legal version. On a limited production vehicle like the Turbo Legacy, since they were sold in CA, I would bet you they were all California compliant. I will check my manual and see what it says about the turbos. But with 2 cats in 1994, I am pretty sure they are 50 states legal and the origin of the donor won't matter...

Still looking on the other stuff. I am going to do some digging tonight and stop waiting for replies from my old buddies in CA...

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