legacycentral bbs

just a thought, anyone think swapping a future EJ25T 05' Legacy engine would fit into our cars without to much hassle??? granted the ECU wiring will be crazy uppdated and different. would be a good engine if my engine dies someday.

It shouldn't be much harder than any of the other engines that swap into our cars, and yeah it would be a VERY potent swap

MK

The setup on the newer wrx's are harder to tweek because of emissions (in california) or at least that is what I was told by a mechanic. I forget the reason exactly, but it had to do with sensors before the exhaust that check air/fuel ratios and what not. I don't remember if it has more than one o2 sensor or what. I wish I could be more specific, but it all had to do with emissions. The ecu sees more, basically, and will trip the engine light a lot easier.

New WRXes don't use a standard narrow-band oxygen sensor in front of the catalytic converter; they use a wideband sensor from Denso, similar to the one Toyota has been using for several years now. Basically, the ECU can read the air/fuel ratio much more accurately, and so can do things like closed-loop feedback control for arbitrary ratios rather than just stoichiometric.

I don't know exactly what the mechanic you were talking to meant by "harder to tweak." If he means that an S-AFC or something equally simplistic wouldn't work easily, that makes sense. But a WRX will respond to aftermarket boost control, intercooling, and such similarly to how our cars do.

The new STi ECU is amazingly smart and adaptive. Any measure to "fool" the ECU is pretty much futile, just like it is in OBD-2 Subies now... but more so.

You just have to make sure you put on the right hardware since everything is well tuned from the factory. Pretty much you almost have to start with a stand-alone ECU after freeing up the exhaust and upgrading to a bigger intercooler. THEN you can go buck wild with turbos, injectors, boost, etc...

Subaru's are like legos. It will be no different than a newer EJ20 swap would be. It will likely have drive by wire throttle and some extra solenoids and wiring for the AVCS, making it a little more complicated than a pre-MY00 EJ20 swap. But otherwise the same 50+ hours of rewiring the car will be required and then you will be able to bolt it right up and have a "factory" swap...

Figured the wiring would be the hardest part, im keeping my car till her chassis falls appart, and im at 180,000+ miles and she's still strong, but IF the engine ever decides to go, ill be all over an EJ25T swap Legos I think I should make a spoiler out of lego's then sell it on e-bay, see how much i can get for it

When the chassis falls apart, have her seam welded.

Steve

you could but you could make more power from an ej22t. the ej22t is a much strounger block and will last much longer than the ej25t.
I have an ej25t in my sti. and will leave it stock. I think they will be a great motor in stock form but I think the block will have issues with much more power.
on the same boost level my ej22t probabally makes about 100 hp more.

Kelly,
I can't agree with your skepticism about the strength of the EJ257 semi-closed deck block. Subaru has always been really conservative and overengineers the shit out of stuff. The early semi-closed EJ20K STi blocks commonly had 400hp pushed out of them. And the same is true of the EJ207's currently available in Japan. I see no reason why you couldn't do the same with this new block that will be just as strong as the EJ20 blocks with more displacement. Sure, the EJ22 closed deck block is bulletproff, but so is the EJ257. Either one could be used for a 400 or even 450hp build in my mind.

The "tweeking" that the mechanic was talking about was with the stock ecu in the car.

Kelly: 100 more hp on the same boost level??? wow.

that is fine. everybody is entitled to there own opinion.
this opionion comes from personal experience from the person who is building my motor. he has had an ej257 at his disposal for about a year. and has taken it appart and studied it.
lets just say it has some weak areas. semi closed seck is a bit of a stretch.
the only parts that I even untilized in my motor were the crank, the heads, and the intake manifold.
the heads are very good.
I am not bashing the ej25j. hey I just bought one and I love my sti. it gets worse gas mileage than my legacy but oh well.
I just dont think it is near as strong of a motor as the ej20t sti or the ej22t.
and I think the ej22t is stronger than the ej20.
but this is all opinion and you can agree or disagree as you like.

I have a EJ22G almost stripped in my kitchen and just got the stubborn oil pan off - this is one tough looking bottom end! I haven't seen the semi-closed block, but I can't see it being as strong as this, although I'm sure it's pretty tough on its own.

I knew how this was built but to see it is something else. I feel like I have something exotic in my kitchen. This is great!

Steve

Kelley,
Just so we are clear. I agree that the EJ22 is the stronger of the two blocks. I just don't think the EJ257 is so close to the limits of design specifications that I would stay at a stock 300hp if I had one to build. And as mentioned I think they can both handle a ton of boost and be the basis of a 400+hp build.

But back to the question posed in this thread since we don't even have clue what the thread starter's end goals are and shouldn't thread jack this with our own discussion of engines...

If I had a 165 hp Legacy or Impreza looking for an engine swap I would grab an EJ257 in an instant with its AVCS and in the case of the coming Legacy GT the 5EAT with paddle shifters (that I must have for my Legacy in a couple years. ) This is going to be an excellent swap for many people once people start wrecking them...

To continue the hijack... Matt is right. The new EJ257 is a really sweet motor with TONS of potential for 400hp or more. Kelley and I are taking nothing from the EJ257. However, Kelley and I both believe that an EJ22T has even more potential, simply because the block is so tough. There is one thing I can give the EJ257 over the EJ22T: much better head design. The EJ257 has the AVCS system, DOHC, and sodium-filled valves. The EJ22T doesn't have near that kind of potential in the heads. That's why I would be very interested to see someone successfully swap the EJ257 AVCS heads onto and EJ22T. That, my Subie-loving friends, would be a MONSTER!!!

as far as the head design on the ej22t. yes it is horrible. yes it is a 15 year old design. so yes the ej257 has a better head design.
yes you can mate those heads to the ej22t block. yes it would be a very nice engine. and I just happen to know of someone that would be more than happy to do that for any of you.
you do have to run a differant engine management to utilize the vvt operation. I only know of one type that does that properly.
I dont know what the exact power potential of the ej257 is. I have an idea but that is an opinion and I will refrain from saying.
but I do know that the jdm ej20 sti motor does have a stronger block than the ej257. I know subaru says semiclosed deck for both motors. but they are very differant in the reinforcemnet around the cylinder walls.
as far as the ej22t (imho) this is the strongest block that subaru has ever produced on a consumer level ( the ver3 ej20) is just as strong but I think there are obvious benefits of the ej22t.
allright that is all I am going to say for now. sorry for boring everyone with
my thoughts.

subyluvr2212 wrote: That's why I would be very interested to see someone successfully swap the EJ257 AVCS heads onto and EJ22T. That, my Subie-loving friends, would be a MONSTER!!!

Here, here! ( standing, clapping)

I ditto that.

Kelley,
I don't think you are boring anyone with your thoughts. And I too can't wait to see someone put an AVCS head on an EJ22 block. it very likely won't be me. I am going the easy route and just putting an SOHC EJ25 head on mine when the time comes. But then I am going to be happy with 18-20psi of boost. /thread jack over/

ohhh the possibilities
I had no ultimate goal of specific info, just wondering