legacycentral bbs

I need a little reasurance here. My Turbo has a really clean body and interior with new front fenders and headlights but no motor, tranny, or rearend. I would like to built this thing to be a real giant killer/ sleeper, and I figure if I can do it for about 10K less that a new STI than I'll have an awsome sleeper with better looks than the new STI(personal opinion).

I plan on stiffening the chassis with some cage work, getting my EJ22T block built to a 2.4L stroker, getting full stand alone ECU, getting either a built 5speed or a new STI 6speed with rear end to match, and getting the best suspension for my needs.

Now what I need to know from you guys is if you think I can accomplish this for around 20 to 25K and will it be a better investment than just selling out a buying a new STI? And do you think it will become able to eat STI's and other highend cars for breakfast?

I know I may sound crazy for doing this to a 13year old car but I figgure I already own the car so why go out and buy a $35K car only to start chaging stuff and spending more money on it to make it faster when I can just spend the go faster money on the car thats payed for.

Also If you guys have any ideas or suggestion on how you think I should go about the prodject or where to get parts or have work done (MOTOR) I would appreciate it. Thanks.

I think it'd be awesome, Go for it Do you plan on seam welding the chassis or actually throwing in a cage. Seam welding would let you keep the interior stock looking which would be even more awesome.

Mark,

The STI has some chassis bracing underneath that you may also want to look into adding if possible. There's a front subframe where the control arms on the front attach in particular. Looks very stiff. Not sure if it'll be adaptable to the Legacy (or at least easily adaptable). Also, what is the sensor thing on the R180 rear end of the STI? Anyone know? You may need to incorporate these other features into your standalone ECU. I say go for it. Always better to be different anyway.

Plus think of the insurance you'd save. They never need to know it's anything but an N/A. In MA once a car's 15 yrs. old it's no longer subject to emissions, but I don't know about RI. Incidentally, my car's coming up on 14 and according to the registry it'll always be a 230K mi+ N/A fwd wagon.

Steve

The one thing I would worry about putting all of that money into a older car,is getting it back from the insurance company if something would happen to it. Sure if you would wreck it, you could part it out and get some of you money back, but what if it is stolen or catches on fire and becomes un-salvageable. If you are willing to take the risks I would say go for it. It would be a great sleeper.

I may go with some seem welding too, but I want some extra bracing for my harnesses to mount to. It would just be a little cage built real close to everything and not really noticable, at least to guy next to me at the stop light

I have seen some of the bracing under the WRX's, but I haven't been under an STI yet. It looks like Subaru has been adding alot of extra bracing to all their cars lately. I don't know what sensor your talking about in the R180 rears but I don't think it would be anything I need to worry about for stand alone ECM. Also in R.I. you have to have every car inspected and tested for emmisions every 1 or 2 years. Not a problem as long as everything looks safe and the engine is tuned well.

I suppose the insurance risk is something to consider, in the case of an accident most of the money would be in interchangable parts so it would be salvagable and "I" haven't wreaked a car yet anyway. If it was stolen that would definitly suck, but I'v only had 1 car stolen and that was because I left the keys in it, it was only worth about $200 anyway. Chances are the Turbo would become like the SVX, driven back and forth to work where it never really leaves my sight and never gets driven to Walmart to have the doors bashed in. And a fire would really suck but I would hope that I put the car together well enough for that to never happen.

Keep em commin, I really need some advice on where to get a motor built and what the best tranny solution might be. Lets set a goal of 350WHP in a daily driver, sound good?

subafreak wrote:Also If you guys have any ideas or suggestion on how you think I should go about the prodject or where to get parts or have work done (MOTOR) I would appreciate it. Thanks......

....Keep em commin, I really need some advice on where to get a motor built and what the best tranny solution might be. Lets set a goal of 350WHP in a daily driver, sound good?

350whp is easy, guys do it on mitsu 2Ls all the time, but they don't have the main crutch that we have. You'll need one hell of a tranny to hold that. I think a full dog engagement tranny or the 6 speed will be your only tranny options.

Forgive me for getting a little philosophical but I've been here before and done this both ways.

Pro doing up the Legacy: the satisfaction of creating something unique; the 'sleeper' qualities; having something that EXACTLY matches your requirements

Anti: you'll never get anything like the value back when you sell it; the hassle of trying to get things to work together that weren't originally intended to...

Pro buying the STi: the factory guys have done all the hard work in advance; you still won't get all the money back unless it becomes a collectors item and you keep it long enough!

Anti: You won't have a unique car...

That's a top-line overview, but the main points are there. Personally, if you can build the Legacy without worrying about the money, and realising that you will never, ever make that value back then do it - you'll have something that no-one else has for less than the price of the STi.

Just my 2c worth

A very good point, but not a consern for me. I'v never intend on selling any of my cars for a profit, I do it all for me.

$20-25K!!! I see no reason why this can't be done for $10-15K since you already have the car. If you are going to pay for a bunch of the work like the built motor and the tranny install I say contact Rallispec in N.J.
www.rallispec.com They will likely be able to address the chassis issues as well. They have done a number of WRX conversions as well as do race specific rally builds. And they have been at it a long time, so they are experienced with the Legacy chassis and not just Imprezas. Furthermore, they stock a ton of STi parts and things like IHI turbos so they will have whatever you need. I personally am a big fan of one stop shopping. And being on the right coast, you will likely be able to drive the car to them,fly home and come back when whatever work you have done is finished.

here's something to think about: The sti has a 170% stiffer chassis than a new bc legacy. Yours has seen many years of use. Sure, the legacy would be faster, you could prolly make it handle better, and chassis bracing would help, but it would still be a foldy rolly cage.

OOh, and anything you dont replace with new will be subjected to far more power than ever before. hubs, diffs, the chassis itself, yadda yadda...

All told, it's going to take about the same amount of money to go either way (build+maintence+certs)

Rallispec looks like a good place and yes it's even on the right coast. I'll have to get chatting with thoes guys.

As for chassis stiffness, that is where the welding and bracing comes in. Sure it may still not be as stiff as an STI but I bet it will be lighter (no SRS, ABS, or DCCD.) Also the only parts left that are stock will probly be the hubs and I'v never seen one of them explode becouse of to much power.

See, I could easily blow $7,300 on a new 6speed.

Yay , This Rallispec place is fun. So far I'v spent $14,660 on the tranny, brakes, and suspension. Now lets find out how much I'm gona spend on the engine and managment. Oh, yeah can't forget the Turbo, intercooler , and exaust system. Hmm, what was my price cap again? $25K?

Oh shizzat...That's the last time I give another Subby addict a fix. I WILL NOT BE AN ENABLER!

http://www.isrperformance.com/main.html
Ok, maybe just one more little fix...

subafreak wrote:I bet it will be lighter (no SRS, ABS, or DCCD.)

No ABS??? No way would I put 350BHP to the wheels and not have ABS braking...

I would! I'm not a fan of ABS.

Mark,

Matt Monson wrote:http://www.isrperformance.com/main.html
Ok, maybe just one more little fix...

Yeah, I can get a 750hp 2.5L for only $22,000, Um, thats a little much. Cool, but a little to much.



I tossed the ABS a long time ago. I hate it too.

Just so you guys know, I'm tossing around some plans in my head about making "The Ultimate BC Legacy." I won't do it to my Legacy, I'll find another one to do this huge project on. I can do it for about the price of a WRX, I believe, and I will have no problem munching STi's for a snack. I am not revealing my idea just yet, I'm not 100% sure it will even come to fruition. It definitely would take at least a year, if not two, and I probably wouldn't even start until I was out of college. But just allow me to say that I would definitely do it for me and probably never have plans to sell it, and that I would drive it sparingly enough that insurance wouldn't concern me. I would definitely do some chassis bracing, but I would probably do most of that myself, saving some $$$...

Anyway, yes I think it's worth it. It's so much more fun to make a beautiful, fast car, out of something that once was drab and slow. Buying an STi is too easy. Once the finished project is in front of your eyes, you will be 100 times more proud of yourself...

Yes, sounds like we are on the same page with this idea. Alot of money can be saved if you can do most of the work yourself, fortunatlly I can, I work at a garage. It's also nice if you have some place to keep the prodject during it's transformation, mine is nice in cozy under cover in the body shop of the garage I work at. It's nice to not have the car out side rotting away wile I gather parts (and money) to put it together, plus you can just start working on it when ever you get spare time. I really need to start getting on this thing, it has now been sitting for just over a year and I have robbed every drivetrain component off of it for either my Beater Legacy or my SVX or my Turboed Loyal. I don't feel to bad because most of the stuff I've robbed is going to be upgraded anyway so.

When it comes time I'll probly just take out a big loan to do it all at once. I just have to get rid of some current bills first and pay for a coil over set for the SVX then all my other cars should be set as long as nothing major breaks and I can turn my attention to the Turbo.