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Water in the Oil--Head Gasket?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:29 pm
by shagnsubywagn
Hi everyone, I'm new--really love the list here.
Love my subaru. But I've been doing a lot of travel lately, and I noticed in the past couple weeks that the engine started to run a little harder. First this was noticible in speeds over 55, but now it applies to most any speed...first I thought it might be a suspension problem (shaking--like bad struts or something), but it definitely is related to acceleration.
So I notice one day that the oil is WAY down in level, and add a quart...then start to watch it more closely. The next time I check the oil, I find a streak of milky-white substance in it...
Best the boyfriend and I can deduce is that I probably have a blown head gasket...anyone know relatively what this should cost at a shop, vs. what this could cost to do it ourselves; and maybe some advice or info about how to do it. Any thoughts on other things this could be?
The boyfriend has done this kind of work on FORDs--so any help about the specifics relating to the (superior, of course) design of this engine might be really helpful.
Thanks in advance,
Emily
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:06 pm
by THAWA
shop, someone said like 1500 to me. I did it myself and it cost less than 200 including parts. It can be done in less than 2 days (maybe even one if you have everything you need and know exactly what to do) if you don't have the heads machined, otherwise expect it to take about a week or sho including shop time. It's not really a hard job to do. I'd say the hardest part is either getting the driverside headbolts back on with the engine still in the car, or taking the intake manifold off. Just remember to get all new gaskets and head bolts.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:40 pm
by ciper
The only real difference between a subaru and some other vehicles is two headgaskets. Aligning the three timing gears (5 on DOHC models) is important but not too hard. The job is possible with the engine in the car, but it probably ends up about the same amount of time if you lift/drop it.
I suggest making sure the surfaces are flat before just throwing another gasket on.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:12 pm
by evolutionmovement
Check cylinder compression to see which one it is (I'd guess pass side) unless you want to do both of them. Parts are cheap, it's all labor. You can probably just lift the motor a little to get at the heads easily instead of unplugging everything and pulling it completely if you have a crane. I had to use an impact wrench to get the head bolts off mine, though. Luckily the motor isn't in a car yet.
Steve
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:38 pm
by ciper
It might not be leaking out of the cylinder though. Ive seen headgasket failures (not subaru) where coolant leaks out of the passage into the engine bay but the ring around the cylinder was okay.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:56 pm
by evolutionmovement
Luckily I haven't had enough experience with them to have seen that. I'd replace both HGs anyway to be safe. Then again I always replace the water pump with every timing belt, too, so I'm anal.
Steve
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:07 am
by THAWA
Yeah you might as well replace both sides, Nothing worse than doing one only to have the other blow soon(not saying it will, just saying it'd suck if it happened)
Thanks!
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:51 pm
by shagnsubywagn
Thanks for all the info, everyone. We're going to figure out what parts are available in town, and probably go for it on Monday. Hopefully I will be able to be back on the road by the end of the week...
Really, thanks again for all the great responses.
I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.
Emily
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:52 pm
by ciper
Thanks!
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:53 pm
by shagnsubywagn
Thanks for all the info, everyone. We're going to figure out what parts are available in town, and probably go for it on Monday. Hopefully I will be able to be back on the road by the end of the week...
Really, thanks again for all the great responses.
I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.
Emily
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:56 pm
by ciper
If you dont like the web you can call Jason from subaruparts.com at 1-866-528-5282
Both of these are dealers with deep discounts.
Thanks
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:01 am
by shagnsubywagn
Thanks to all you guys for your help.
Called Jason; will have the parts in hand by Wed!
Emily
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:43 am
by THAWA
jawesome, if you need any help just ask.
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:06 pm
by shagnsubywagn
Well...in case anyone was wondering what happened...I guess I'll try to tell the story here...
So my largest original complaint about the wagon was that it was shaking/vibrating a lot. So then I saw the white streak in the oil the one day before posting here. Then I got all the parts to do the head gasket job, and before diving into that, my boyfriend offered to change the struts--there was no question they were bad anyway.
Also, neither he nor I have ever seen the "white streak" in the oil again...so was that just a figment of my imagination? --a piece of donut glaze from my Krispy Kreme napkin?? So before ripping the whole thing apart, it sounded good to replace the struts and see if that would do the trick...it needed to be done anyway, and it was a smaller job.
So I order the rear struts, and he puts them on. No problem. A few days later I order the front struts, and he puts them on...(this is where it gets interesting)...the front of the car starts making these popping sounds...but anyway we drive it to the alignment place and drop it off. So the guy calls me at 4 that afternoon, and when I ask if the alignment is done, he says "well ma'am, the thing with your car is...(this can't be good!) that when these struts were put on, they weren't attached to the bearing plate correctly, so they've chewed up the plate. Those will need to be replaced. I checked with dealers about prices..." and you know how the rest goes... 
So time to either start working on the car myself (which I don't really have the time for, unfortunately) or find a competent boyfriend, right??? 
Well anyway, George felt so terrible that he immediately ordered the bearing plates, and offered to pay for them to be put on at the shop.
Anyway, so later I take the car into the import shop (because George is a nice friend, but until I forget about the struts he is banned from working on my car) and the guy doesn't think the head gasket's blown at all, but replaces drive belts, timing belt, and ball joints. Maybe something else too. The guy said the compression was good, maybe 95%? Is that good?
Anyhow, I've gone from 188K to 195K and it seems fine. I still don't think it runs quite as smoothly as it did about 50,000 mi ago, but maybe other factors are at play. For example, it needs a new O2 sensor, but I've been dragging my feet about spending the $. Or maybe they're selling me water at the gas station for $2.00/gal.
Well, hope this sordid tale was somewhat interesting to some of you folks. Now I think I'll go down to the parts list and try to sell off the head gasket parts, which I hope isn't bad luck (like, if I keep them, I will never need them, but once I get rid of them...).
Thanks for everyone's helpful input!
Emily
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:30 pm
by Legacy777
hey emily,
glad you got everything sorted out. Yeah you gotta have those cone washers in there between the strut and the top mount....or it'll squauk at ya.
Sounds like you got most of the stuff taken care of. You might want to try putting a generic O2 sensor from
www.oxygensensors.com on. You just have to splice the wire in.....not too difficult....and it's definitely cheaper then one from the dealer.
You might want to consider having the coolant sniffed from hydrocarbons to either confirm or deny your head gasket worries.
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:46 pm
by evolutionmovement
The white stuff could have just been condensation. Happens relatively often. You're probably fine.
Steve
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:48 pm
by vrg3
I think you can get a kit at NAPA to check for hydrocarbons in your water at home. My brother checked his that way when he was worried about his head gasket.
If the shop gave you a percentage, they probably did a leakdown test rather than a compression test. A leakdown test is actually a better test, and 95% is a good number.