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http://www.turbonator.com
I've seen these things advertised on TV and i've always thought they were pretty much a joke. So i was wondering, what does everyone else think about them?

The worst part about it is that they stole the idea from the "Tornado Fuel Saver" as seen on TV

Technically this thing should work, but only on carburated engines where the path between the point where fuel is introduced and the combustion chamber is relatively long. There's not much benefit to swirl the air when the fuel is injected near the combustion chamber.

Besides I think my turbo does a hell of a lot better job than that thing

my $0.02

intake restriction aplenty

91White-T wrote:intake restriction aplenty

Yep. If this thing works, that would be very very odd.

I would believe that it helps on a few cars.

Some cars have dreadful intake systems from the factory. A guy I know once hooked up a pressure gauge to the intake manifold on his car (I can't remember exactly what the car was -- it was a late-model American V6 or V8, maybe a Chrysler LHS or a Cadillac Seville) and at full throttle he measured several psi of vacuum.

It's plausible that adding a little tumble to an intake that's already very restrictive anyway might help rather than hurt things.

'Course, gaining 35hp and 31% better mileage is an absurd claim, and the way they state it shows they don't respect potential customers at all even if their product has a shred of merit. And why don't they specify the terms of their warranty on the web page?

And the concept of putting one of these before the throttle body of a turbocharged vehicle as they recommend makes me cringe.

I love how one of their testimonials has a guy saying his car now feels like it has a turbocharger.

I find it funny when you read all the testimonials how peaople are like "right away i noticed a 20HP difference". Ya right like youre going to actually be able to tell. Besides it was probably more like 19HP.

vrg3 wrote:I love how one of their testimonials has a guy saying his car now feels like it has a turbocharger.

maybe he means turbo-lag

ahem, garbage...

Mark

import_freak wrote:I find it funny when you read all the testimonials how peaople are like "right away i noticed a 20HP difference". Ya right like youre going to actually be able to tell. Besides it was probably more like 19HP.

wish they would put a dyno sheet on the site. oh wait, that would prove that the thing is the answer to a question nobody asked.

That's why it pays to be educated. Combustion chamber swirl is a function of head design and cam timing. All that thing could do is restrict airflow and disrupt intake pulse tuning. I don't even see how it can help fuel atomization.

This thing appeals to idiots and conspiracy theorists who still believe there's a 100 mpg carburetor design that the big 3 and the oil companies suppressed.

Steve

Steve - But fuel is injected in the manifold, not in the combustion chamber. That's why Subaru puts tumble generator valves on its new manifolds.

Wouldn't that be for better fuel atomization as there's no real space along the intake path for the fuel to mix with the air (like in a carburetted engine)? The turbulence generated would help that, I would guess. They work like throttle plates, right? It may be an attempt to optimize tuning for high and low rpms. Any final swirl is a function of internal cylinder design (piston and head shape, valve placement & size) and valve ports - any outside factors would have minimal affect at best on final charge behavior. If you look at direct injection engines, lean burn, or stratified charge engine designs you'll get a good (if maybe extreme) picture of this at work.

Steve

I understand what you're saying about the in-cylinder swirl... The reverse tumble in the combustion chamber of a GDI engine is what the swirl-in-the-manifold systems try to crudely approximate, I think.

From my understanding, yes, the TGVs are a bit like small throttle plates. They're basically big restrictions in the intake runner that force the air to go around them, creating swirl that helps the make the air/fuel mixture more homegenous. They open up when the motor's not idling.

The concept seems similar to a Turbonator, except that the location of the restriction is completely different.

I always assumed the function of the tumble generator was to decrease the runner size.

They look like a throttle plae with half missing, just upstream of the injectors. They are intended ONLY for emissions and have nothing to do with extra power. They are totally shut until 3000 RPM. Or in other words you have tiny intake runners at low rpm and larger free flowing units at high.

I find it amusing that we're actually seriously discussing the effect of this device. But it is interesting. I agree that in theory it could help mix fuel/air, but it would need to be fitted properly match engine and manifold design if it were to have an effect. The tumble generators are also variable, aren't they? So at best with a lucky match this thing would help mix fuel/air over a small band of rpm - providing it's restriction doesn't also interfere with the optimized rpm band of the particular manifold's pulse tuning and cancel out any benefit. Then, too, the car isn't going to be aware of any change in mixture and so would not use less fuel or optimize timing, etc to take advantage anyway. I would conceded that MAYBE it could pick up a HP at best at one spot on the rpm range, but would hurt at others and be a problem at high rpms.

Steve

I can only fathom it improving fuel economy at idle... I can't believe it improves power. But it's easy to trick yourself into perceiving a nonexistent power increase. It's harder to imagine see an increase in fuel economy.

Here's some info from Subaru on TGVs: http://www.drivesubaru.com/Win03_Manifold.htm