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Strut/spring vs coilovers?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:39 pm
by LegacyT
Is there any difference in handling potential? Could a well set up strut/spring setup be equal to an aftermarket coilover setup? Cause right now I'm thinking KYB AGX's and tein springs or whiteline springs for my ride.

MArk,

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:00 pm
by NuwanD
coil-overs will have higher handling potential over a strut/coil combination... however the kyb-agx/tein setup will handle extremely well, the coil-overs will show a marked improvement because of the high adjustability of their design (rebound/compression dampening/pre-load....), as well as their low weight (unsprung weight) and the fact that you can dial in more camber and castor with the narrower profile of a coil-over.

also remember that coil-overs usually need to be rebuilt fairly often depending on usage, and most don't hold up well to winter conditions and road salt

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:49 pm
by LegacyT
I dont think the road salt is an issue since I don't drive my car in the winter. But could you explain the rebuid issue? How often must they be rebuilt, is it expensive? Do they get used up and have to be replaced with new units often?

Mark,

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:32 pm
by NuwanD
this may help you... it is for DMS coil-overs specifically but all brands tend to follow these same guidelines;

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Recently many different people have asked the same question: "How often do I need to service my suspension?" The answer depends on a lot of variables. No TWO struts will require exactly the same interval between maintenance. There are simply too many factors affecting the time between services such as:

the type of climate conditions: hot, cold, snow, salt, dust, etc.
the different types of surfaces: asphalt, gravel, rough roads, snow, ice, street, etc. the type of driving: hard acceleration, rally, solo, auto-x, hard braking, etc.

All these factors will play into determining time between regular maintenance and servicing. More important than time between is to identify the symptoms needing to be addressed and being able to associate them with a corrective action. Again, not all struts are the same, but it is NEVER a bad idea to remove, inspect and re-grease or even send for strut body servicing if required at least on a yearly basis.

Some symptoms of struts needing attention can vary from slight squeaking sounds, all the way to an insert not travelling at all. Maybe some minor clunking sounds, or even excessive overheating of the piston resulting in fading of the rebound and bump controls. When driving the vehicle, it may feel like the strut is lagging in its reaction time, not absorbing the bumps and hits as it should. It is important however for all end users to remember the following:

"A well maintained set of suspension will last for many years before
needing any sort of major replacement, but one that is not will break
down and fail prematurely. "

The nice thing about ALL DMS products is that they can be fully re-built. All of the parts can be replaced without replacing the entire assembly. Grease, seals, adjusters, and stickers can all be purchased from your local distributor.

DMS strut assembly maintenance / servicing can go from just taking the units off of the car, removing the insert from the body, inspecting them for straightness, cracks, scratches, then cleaning out the tube and re-packing it with new grease and seal. A complete INSERT rebuild is at the other end of the scale and includes replacement of the gas piston, new oil, valve assembly, etc.

The three types of maintenance most encountered for all DMS units are as follows .

Body Re-greasing Kit: The parts included in this kit are new grease, seals, trademark stickers and nylon lock nut. During this servicing, all components are inspected for abnormal wear and straightness, all parts cleaned and reassembled ready for new alignment. This kit is designed for the end user and comes complete with instructions so that the units do not have to be sent back to the service facility all the time. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS SUPPLIED WITH THE KIT.
Body Service Kit #2: This kit includes all the components of the re-greasing kit plus two new bushes per strut body, lock nut, and red bump adjuster cap. Adjuster maintenance and cleaning as well as insert dyno testing and inspection. This is something that requires special tools and training to do properly and is recommended ONLY by authorised personnel.

Rebuild Kit: This kit only services the strut insert, NOT THE BODY. Parts included are shaft and valving assembly, wear band, gas piston assembly, gland pack assembly, circlips, bump cap, rebound spacer, nylon lock nut as well as bump adjuster and protective red cap. Prices are different for 40mm, 50mm, and 60mm
Kit


Parts Included Labor Each (CAD)

re-greasing .5hr x $65 $100
Grease
Seal
Sticker
Nylon Nut

service #2 .75hr x $65 $187.50
Grease
Seal
Sticker
adj sticker
grub nut
2x bushes
Nylon Nut

50mm rebuild
Shaft and Valving 1.75hr x $65 $562.50
Wear Band
Gas Piston
Gland Pack
2x circlips
Bump Cap
grub screw
Rebound spacer
Bump rubber
Bump adj. Cover
Bump Adjuster


40mm rebuild
Shaft and Valving 1.5hr x $65 $450.00
Wear Band
Gas Piston
Gland Pack
2x circlips
Bump Cap
grub screw
Rebound spacer
Bump rubber
Bump adj. Cover
Bump Adjuster
hope that helps :D

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:35 pm
by NuwanD
also when looking into what brand of coil-overs to get check out where their nearest location is, i know dms has an authorized dealer in quebec (lachute subaru), and tein is in california. If you need a rebuild you will need to either ship your suspension to the nearest authorized dealer or you'll have to get the parts shipped to you ...$$$

shipping across the border is a pain in the a$$