legacycentral bbs

Hello,

I've got a 1994 Legacy Sports Sedan, manual transmission. I've noticed a lot of nice TMIC setups pictured elsewhere in the board - those are, for the most part, the old WRX intercoolers right? Which years did they come off of? And... below is a photo of my engine compartment. Note the location of the clutch fluid reservoir and the scoop chimney stack. Is a TMIC even a possibility for me? I've seen photos of installs but they seemed to be automatics, from what I could tell. I'd also need a larger hood scoop, the little Legacy scoop isnt much. Where's the best place to get a WRX or STi hood scoop from?

And is the stock recirculating BOV right below the TB? Thats the only thing I can see that resembles one. I have a GReddy Type S BOV and am wondering where it goes - or do I wait until I have an STi intercooler in place before I can get rid of the stock one? I want to hear the expulsion of my 8.7 psi venting to the atmosphere. My car's too silent.

I'll take a stab at this.

For intecoolers for our cars you have a few options.
Most of us here use a Saab 900 IC that they pick up on ebay, pretty simple install from what I can tell, a few DYI pipes/hoses are needed to install it.

The older WRX intercoolers, like the one I have is off a 95 JDM WRX. they're easier to install but still require some DYI'ing.

02+ WRX IC's are a tight fit, apparently only 2 or 3 ppl on the board here have them installed. they require a ton of work to install including custome Turbo to IC piping as well as a lot of moving around of current parts.

Your chimney can come off if need be to install an intercooler.

The hoodscoop is small, and ebay would be your best bet to get a WRX scoop.

For the ultimate Intercooler for our cars though is the JDM EJ20G Air to Water intercoolers. Problem is they're harder to find.

As for your BOV not many of us us Aftermarket due to running rich and idle problems with Atmo BOV's. Most of us just replumb the original.

If you want to make your car louder remove your snorkus resonator, look up on the board for the mug intake, and get yourself a big exhaust.


Hope that helps.

Thanks, thats good info. I already performed me a snorkusectomy some time back, that helped a bit... using an atmospheric BOV causes idling problems in our cars? Weak. This BOV sounds nice, too. Anyone gotten past those problems without going back to the recirculating one?

I plan to find a proper to-go coffee mug and get the fittings so I can replace that box, that should help too.

What about the stock fuel pump/injectors -- how much boost can be run on a daily driver once an intercooler is in use before we need say, WRX injectors and pump? (and then how much boost has been safely run on the EJ22T without forged internals?) This car is in need of more boost, there's so much potential here...

(BTW... how big of an exhaust could feasibly be of use with the boost levels we're talkin about here... 2.5"? 3"? It's already got what looks to be 2" or so and sounds pretty decent)

The most "bolt on" Intercooler is the SAAB unit. one pipe needs to be made, a few parts scavenged, and that's all. Looks almost OEM when all is said and done too.

lets see.

The Stock fuel pump does flow quite well, but a good upgrade would be the Walbro 255 one.

Injectors are something you'll want later on if you're switching out the turbo to a bigger one and going for higher HP numbers.

The exhaust stock is 2.25, and 2.5" IMO is a perfect size.

as for the stock internals, I've read they can hold upto 250HP for a joke, so I think you'd be running out of PSI efficiency with the small turbo at anything over 13 PSI before you have to worry about killing the internals.

A suggestion to get all your answers is really to take one forum here at a time and read the whole thing. I learned lotsa little bits of info from doing so.

Our internals are pretty stout actually. The crank and rods are already forged and our pistons are high pressure cast, which is a close step below forged. They can handle up to about 340-350 chp.

Our fuel and ignition systems are also pretty stout. Both are good up to around 300chp. I would maybe get a 255 wahlbro above 230-240chp.

Injectors that will fit our fuel rails are pretty hard to come by, really. Kelley, that's starting Perfection Motorsports, said he would have injectors options for the EJ22T soon. Vrg3 also discovered that the caps could be removed from 92-94 N/A injectors allowing much higher fuel delivery. This still hasn't been flow tested and the fuel pattern is unknown but it looks promising. Using these on the EJ22T will require changing the fuel rails also to 92-94 N/A rails. We also discovered some Nismo injectors will fit the swapped N/A rails. IIRC they're 525cc and 750cc. These however are very expensive at around $800 USD for a set of 4.

In terms of exhaust, I think that 2.5" is a great upgrade from the stock 2.25", 160 chp, up to around 230 chp. Anything over that and IMO you're better off going 3".

Intercoolers, the Saab 900 is the cheapest and one of the easiest to install. The RS AWIC is a wonderful upgrade but it's very involved and slightly expensive. They are an import item unless you can find someone selling them/one that already inported it. The early (93-96) WRX and STI TMIC are great too but they also are an import item and can be expensive. These install pretty easily like the Saab 900 (maybe easier) but are more expensive. The oem 02-04 USDM WRX TMIC can be made to fit as well but it's a very tight fit and a lot of work is involved.

Hope that's helpfull.

legacy92ej22t wrote:The oem 92-94 USDM WRX TMIC can be made to fit as well but it's a very tight fit and a lot of work is involved.

I'm sure he means 02-04 USDM WRX.

The BOV thing. I seem to be the only one who actually wants to try and figure a way to run open.

Turbosmart makes a split valve where 60% of the air is dumped back into the intake tract while 40% is expelled to the atmosphere. I never posted anything about it because I figure I had started enough topics about venting to the atmosphere.

I have been meaning to try and get a hold of one of these valves to try out for a few days. I don't want to buy one though. I might have to talk to my buddy and see if I can get a used one from turbosmart for a trail period.

ultrasonic wrote:

legacy92ej22t wrote:The oem 92-94 USDM WRX TMIC can be made to fit as well but it's a very tight fit and a lot of work is involved.

I'm sure he means 02-04 USDM WRX.

Haha, ya, totally. Thanks for pointing that out.

so now I'm a bit confused, i thought the JDM legacy intercooler was the best to go with, if price isnt an issue,is it?

Best yes for use of water to cool the air. It's probably the most difficult to install.

The Saab and JDM WRX ones are simple to install in comparison but since our hoodsoops are like razorblade slits in a peice of paper they're not as good as the AWIC.

free5ty1e wrote:Thanks, thats good info. I already performed me a snorkusectomy some time back, that helped a bit... using an atmospheric BOV causes idling problems in our cars? Weak. This BOV sounds nice, too. Anyone gotten past those problems without going back to the recirculating one?

Atmo BOVs are detrimental to performance on ANY turbocharged car running a MAF sensor. Not just turbo legacys. wrxs, dsms, etc. If you see any of them running around without engine management (standalone or intricate piggy-back . . . non-S-AFC) then they're prolly runnin sh!ttier than stock.

If the car is MAP based, then an atmospheric BOV won't have any negative effects. Similar to how a re-circ wouldn't have any positive benefits.

Basically, from what I have read, the reason that the cool bov's are bad is that our cars dispense fuel based on the amount of air past the sensor.

Remove that air out of the system, and the car has too much fuel and you get richness and driveability problems.

If you really want the fftt - (make no mistake it sounds great) you need to manage fuel differently.

totech wrote:Basically, from what I have read, the reason that the cool bov's are bad is that our cars dispense fuel based on the amount of air past the sensor.

Remove that air out of the system, and the car has too much fuel and you get richness and driveability problems.

If you really want the fftt - (make no mistake it sounds great) you need to manage fuel differently.

That's kinda why, but a more specific reason is because of the MAF sensor location. It's always located before the bov recirculation point. A MAP sensor is located inside the manfold (or I should say it's tapped into the inside of the manifold). Once you let off the gas, the atmo valve vents air into the atmosphere, consider locations of sensors

1. A MAF sensor has already metered this air so the ecu thinks more air is getting in the engine than is actually there.

2. A MAP sensor, measuring air inside the engine due to pressure changes, doesn't read the air vented because the throttle's closed. The air doesn't even reach the sensor before it's vented.

The reason why aftermarket ecus can accomodate for an atmo BOV is because most of them switch to MAP-based sensing, and not necessarily because of tuning.

I just noticed this, but dude... it looks like you need to change your brake fluid really bad. If that isn't super blue then that stuff looks older than the car.

heh... I think thats just a really dirty reservoir, I believe you're going on the assumption that my brake fluid color is clearly visible from the outside - my friend and I changed the rear pads and checked the fluid and it looked fine once the top was open. Thanks for warning me though.

Anyway I see now I will have to go to some aftermarket fuel management if I want to use my GReddy BOV, that makes sense. So WRX injectors won't fit in our rail? Boo to that. I'll probably look for a Saab 900 IC on ebay and work that out first, then look into the fuel system upgrade. Maybe a whole new fuel management system will be necessary anyway, in which case I'd no longer be relying on the MAF and will be free to plumb my BOV in without problems. Thanks for all the info, I have been looking around and man there's a crapload of posts I have to go through. Great board.