legacycentral bbs

This forum has a magnetism to it unsurpassed by any other Subaru board on the Internet.

I still frequented this page as a guest, and found several things I wanted to post on, but decided not to...

Then I decided, screw it, I'm comin back!!!

I still got ol' Patti, she's gettin a new bumper tomorrow night, and some new non-yellowed headlights...

The AWD binding thing was not AWD binding at all. It does it much less now, but there seems to be a general feeling of instability and looseness on the suspension. Worn suspension bushings, most likely. It also seems to be made worse by a empty tank of gas, which is some 75 lbs less weight, I guess...

Also my A/C needs a recharge. Still debatin whether to recharge the current R-12 for a pretty penny or convert it to R-134 for a pretty penny...

But I still have her, motor's running strong as a mule, she's still worth having around...

So the Prodigal Son has returned gentlemen!!

Yes!!!

My A/C needs something done too... It blows cold air but the compressor knocks. I thought maybe it was just low on oil, so yesterday I tried putting in a can of the "oil charge" stuff... it's like 1.5 ounces of oil and 2 ounces of R-12. It had absolutely no effect; the knocking's as bad as ever. I'm gonna continue driving around with the A/C relays pulled (so I can still use the defroster) but I think I'll have to retrofit it with a new compressor. I have almost everything I need -- a new used compressor, a set of manifold gauges, the OEM Subaru retrofit kit... All I need now is to build myself a vacuum pump. Oh yeah, and the time. I'll need to find the time one day. Sigh.

I'm glad you're back, man.

Whoring up NASIOC OT got boring after a while, with the 1800-post Alizee thread (don't tell me you don't know about it )

Besides, I really did miss this place, even if it was only a couple weeks...

Finally, communicating with intelligence again

subyluvr2212 wrote:Whoring up NASIOC OT got boring after a while, with the 1800-post Alizee thread (don't tell me you don't know about it )

Besides, I really did miss this place, even if it was only a couple weeks...

This thread makes me all teary inside...

Inside, not outside. I'm not crying, i swear!

especially this part:

Finally, communicating with intelligence again

thats my new sig i think.

welcome back man.

vrg3, just run your a/c until it dies. Mine made a knocking noise for over a year and still worked. It wasn't until later this spring it wasn't cooling worth a damn and I did my swap/conversion.

Hey!!! That would be an awesome motto/catchphrase/whatever to put on the Legacy Central badge:

viewtopic.php?t=1601

Legacy Central BBS
Finally, communicating with intelligence again.
bbs.legacycentral.org

But, you know ... better looking. :)

Josh - Was yours knocking really loud? Mine sounds about the same from inside the car as passing a construction crew using jackhammers. I'm worried about using it because I don't want my compressor to self-destruct, sending pieces of compressor through all my pipes.

Welcome back! glad to hear you're still a proud suby owner.

Cool! I said something famous!

No public usage until I copyright it!!!:evil:

Hahahaha j/k...

I can't say how happy I am to be back. I really meant it. Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-pakced posts made me feel better all over again

The A/C thing: Mine was knocking too, loud like jackhammers like vrg3. I thought it was the clutch, but I did just what Josh said: just kept using it. About 4 days after it started, I got no more cold air. So I assume it's out of freon...

So I need to recharge it, do I need to have compressor oil put in there too?

Josh did quite a write-up on this if i recall correctly. A lot of the things you need to do the swap to 134 are available at local hardware stores. I know mine has a $70 kit that comes w/ a pressure gauge and everything... May be worth a look.

subyluvr2212 wrote:Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-pakced posts made me feel better all over again

Hah! I'm making that my sig, if it's cool with you.

As for the adding oil when recharging thing, it's not clear to me... What I have seen indicates that even if all your freon leaks out (and freon does leak out at a slow rate as a matter of course in any R-12 system), the oil should remain in the system. But I do know that the oil dissolves in the refrigerant, so I would think that at least some types of leaks could also leak oil. You have to be careful when charging your system, because both underfilling and overfilling oil can cause problems.

I think the oil issue is reason enough for me to take the whole system apart, clean it out, and retrofit it.

Unless you have a cheap source of R-12 freon, you should probably retrofit rather than just recharge. When you do, you will have to clean out as much of the old oil as you can, since R-134a can't carry the mineral oil used with R-12. So then at the end you'll know exactly how much oil and refrigerant you have.

HAHAHAH LMAO!!!

I am on a roll tonight! Sure, vrg3, no problem here...

Unfortunately, I'm really tired, so I'm out of inspiration for any other witty sayings...

I'm not sure whether I want to give up the cooling efficiency of R12 for the cheap recharges of R134.

My workplace said they recharge R12 at $45 a pound but that's list price, it would be a lot cheaper for me internally, and I could pay a mechanic under the table to do it pretty cheap...

I can't afford to do anything with it now, but I'll have to give it some thought...

It's true that R-134a is less efficient as a refrigerant than R-12, but the difference is really minimal. If the retrofit is done right, you will barely notice any difference.

A lot of the stories about how R-134a is so much worse than R-12 are a result of improper retrofitting. If you don't get enough of the old oil out, or if you don't evacuate the system long enough, or if you don't replace the receiver/dryer, or if you don't remember to put less (by weight) R-134a than the R-12 capacity, or ... the list goes on.

A thorough careful retrofit will be fine, and cheaper to maintain in the future.

Mine was not knocking like jackhammers.....it was knocking though.

You guys REALLY need to read my write-up!!

Do exactly what I did and you will have COLD air, and relatively minimal costs. I researched what I did very extensively and the results are excellant. If it can blow cold ass freezing air in Houston, it'll work in FL, VA and any other place.

When I depressurized my system, there was little to no oil that vented. Even in the compressor there was very little oil. So over time if you have small leak you will lose oil as well.

Yeah, I read your writeup, Josh. It was really thorough and clear. My plan is to do what you did except I am going to do all of it myself. I have a set of manifold gauges and am going to build a vacuum pump. I may just go ahead and use PAG oil, since that's what I already have in the FHI retrofit kit.

Hmm, so oil does indeed leak out with refrigerant. The frustrating thing about oil is that there is no way to know exactly how much oil is in your system.

(The writeup is here: viewtopic.php?t=1083 )

Josh, I read your write-up too, but I couldn't follow it too well..

But that's my own fault. Don't feel you wrote a poor explanation. I think I know less about a car's HVAC than any other automotive system. So I should probably get a well-trained mechanic friend who can teach me how to do it myself, since I would like for no one else to ever touch my car again.

For a minute, I was considering lettin my Toyota dealer do it, but not only are they a stea... I mean, dealership , but they also aren't trained on Subarus...

However, there is the time issue. I'm not sure how much longer I can drive around in 100-degree weather without a/c. A R12 recharge would be expensive, but fast...

vrg3 wrote: I may just go ahead and use PAG oil, since that's what I already have in the FHI retrofit kit.

Hmm, so oil does indeed leak out with refrigerant. The frustrating thing about oil is that there is no way to know exactly how much oil is in your system.

(The writeup is here: viewtopic.php?t=1083 )

Don't use PAG oil. It is not compatible with mineral oil, and it's not really possible to get the mineral oil completely out of the system. There will still be traces of it impregnated in the hoses. Esther oil is compatible with r12 & r134a. Use esther oil. Trust me.

Like I said, I researched what I did very thoroughly because I did not want a crappy A/C. There are specific reasons for doing exactly what I did and using the specific things I did. If you have specific questions on individual parts/pieces, etc I can do that.

subyluvr2212 - I highly recommend the Haynes book that Josh mentions in his writeup if you want to learn the basics of automotive HVAC.

Josh - Right, so this "oil compatibility" issue also is unclear to me... R-134a won't carry mineral oil, so you have to use an oil that it will carry. It can carry PAG or ester oil. Does ester oil act as a mixing agent, allowing the R-134a to carry the mineral oil as well?

What does it matter anyway, aside from the fact that the old oil in the system is taking up space that could otherwise be occupied by refrigerant? If that is the only concern, then a tiny amount of old oil shouldn't be a big deal.

The oil itself is the transport agent for the refrigerant. R134a is not compatible with mineral oil. It will not transport r134a.

PAG oil is a synthetic based oil and does work with r134a, but does not work with R12, or mineral oil.

The compatibility is with the oils and refrigerants, not just the refrigerants. PAG doesn't work with mineral & vice versa. Esther as you mentioned works with both, and I believe works with both refrigerants as well. Usually if you get a can of r134a recharge with oil. It will have esther oil in it since it's compatible with both.

I don't know the specific details as to what happens when you mix two incompatible types of oil, but the haynes book may be able to tell you.

Most of the oil in the system will be in the compressor itself. There is a side drain port, which I did take off to get more of the oil out. There's no doubt I didn't get all the mineral oil out of the compressor, but since I added the esther oil, it's not a problem.

I got a lot of my info from a buddy in florida that worked as/with an HVAC tech. The procedure I used was exactly what he did for his car, and it's been blowing cold for a couple years now.

Woah, wait... the oil acts as a transport agent for the refrigerant? I thought it was the other way around.

I understand that PAG oil is "incompatible" (whatever that means) with R-12 refrigerant, and with mineral oil, and that Ester oil is "compatible" with R-12 and R-134a both, as well as with mineral oil and PAG oil.

The Haynes book actually didn't go into very much depth about the oil types; it only mentioned the three and gave a few differences.

All I can imagine ocurring if you use PAG with a retrofit is that some of the space in your system will still be occupied by mineral oil which would basically be inert. That would mean the same weight charge of refrigerant would require higher pressures on both sides of the system, putting a little more overall stress on it. But the amount seems so small it shouldn't matter.

I have no doubt that your A/C and your buddy's blow very cold, because you and he both did a very well-researched, thorough and careful retrofit. I just don't know if I believe that using PAG oil would have been a problem. Subaru, after all, recommends it for one reason or the other. You're right about the "oil charge" though; they almost always have ester in 'em.

Neither of us is an expert on this... we have just both researched it a lot. If I ever find anything definitive I'll post it for sure though.

Yes, the oil is the transport method.

I think a good comparison of the oils is like computers. You have legacy systems (ie old computer hardware/software) (mineral oil) You have new systems (PAG oil), and somewhere inbetween you have systems that work with the new stuff and old stuff (esther oil).

There's some other little tid bits I've heard too about the oils, but I don't have time right now to get into the details.