legacycentral bbs

Ok, new thread here.

My little discussion with BAC 5.2 raises the question of what is "talent" when it comes to working on cars.

First off, he and I never really defined what "talent" is but we both felt pretty strongly about it.

So lets ask some questions and try for some definitions.

Is "talent" good monkeywrenching?
Is "talent" knowing the basics and using them for increasing horsepower?
Is "talent" being able to overcome obstacles?
Is "talent" gained with experience?


What do you think "talent" is and how do you feel you gain it, or earn the title to having "talent"?

And be sure to use those "" when refering to "talent" just to annoy those who dont like using the "".

Good wrenching is actually a talent that a lot of people who work on cars lack. It involves a good understanding of how threaded fasteners work and a healthy respect for the engineering that goes into the machine, and it involves a feel for what's going right and what isn't. There are plenty of people who think they're good at wrenching and even who get paid to wrench professionally who aren't good at it.

Knowing the basics and using them to improve your car doesn't necessarily take talent; it involves some skill of course, but it could easily be more like following instructions than engineering.

Overcoming obstacles and working around difficulties while maintaining certain invariants (like reliability and robustness) is what engineering, and engineering talent, are all about, in my opinion. Understanding that a system is a system, and not just a collection of parts, is hard to do. It relies on a solid foundation of understanding, but definitely improves with experience.

I'm a glassblower, and I have seen a similar argument on kinds of glassworking forums over and over..
The question is always: Is glassblowing an art or craft?
You can argue till your face is blue. It doesn't matter. Not everyone will EVER agree.
Just like glassworking, Working on cars is really just an assembly of different techniques, and bits of knowledge, and repeated practice tends to lead to skill. Once you are skilled, you can start using your "Talent" and getting truly creative.
But creativity doesn't necessarily take much skill.. that is for Imagination to cover...

AAAnyway... In my opinion, Working on cars is a craft which takes knowledge, and an open mind....

DRIVING cars takes talent.

P.S. As if y'all hadn't figured it out, I am definitely one of those people who don't always know which end of the wrench to use... People like me can contribute to these forums by asking oddball questions and getting conversations started.
These boards ARE for the asking of questions right?

I'm going to have to say just wrenching on cars isn't really talent. But doing it so well, and so quickly that it looks like you're a robot, that would be talent. If one could disassemble and rebuild a car with everything working normally in a day or so I'd have to say that's talent. But automotive talent really isn't all that impressive. I too am mor einterested in the engineering aspect of automobiles. I much rather look at the pieces of cars and see how they work together to make the machine, and then I try to see why they were put in the way they were, I try to understand the engineers talent. I think it can be said that without a doubt most car makers have very little talent. Sure they can build high power, or super effcient, or really comfortable cars, but really if all you're doing is throwing more power, effciency, or comfort into the car without regard for the other aspects of the car, is that really talent? I'm not trying to say subaru is the end all beat all for talent, infact some of their ideas are a bit untalented. But IMO they're still many years ahead of almost all other car manufacturers.

Out of those four questions you posted I'm going to have to say talent is most like the third one. All that other stuff is repetition

Coming from a design background I would argue that art can be whatever anyone wants it to be (even Jackson Pollack). We had these arguments at school several times and roommate won (the guy who won the Alcoa competition at Art Center recently). If someone sees something in a fire hydrant and takes it from its normal environment to bring it to attention to try to show something new in it or make an unexpected statement, then I would consider that art. If someone only reproduces an item over and over or only consider what they're making as a simple object, then it would be a craft. That's my opinion, anyway,, so it would depend on what the glassblower intended with their work. If they're just making those little animals they sell at carnivals, then that would be craft, but if they take those same animals and use them in some manner as to make a statement, then it could be considered art.

Or maybe there is no definitve answer and that's what art really is - defineable only by the individual.

Steve

douglas vincent wrote

Is "talent" good monkeywrenching?
Is "talent" knowing the basics and using them for increasing horsepower?
Is "talent" being able to overcome obstacles?
Is "talent" gained with experience?

I would have to say "YES".


evolutionmovement wrote:

Or maybe there is no definitve answer and that's what art really is - defineable only by the individual.

Exactly!

It's funny to see the same argument come up over and over in slightly different manifestations.

First: I don't feel strongly about it. I was defending my opinion in the other thread.

Talent is an instinctive ability.

That said, there is no such thing as a talented mechanic. Just a smart one.

I suppose, for simplicity, you could define a smart and competent mechanic as talented, as long as they have an understanding of things beyond a surface level. If you know exactly how an IAC valve works and have an appreciation for everything that goes into it, not just how to replace one, then you could be considered a talented mechanic.

I've been a professional bike mechanic for the past few years. Not only do I know how to fix and adjust things, but I know how things are put together, and how they work. I know the intricate workings of about any part on any modern bike, and I can appreciate the beauty of a 350 gram rim, or sculpting of a Titanium and Carbon fiber road bike. I spent a lot of time learning what I know, and a lot of time fine tuning my skills. I wouldn't really call it talent, I would call it knowledge.

Common sense doesn't make you talented. Building something from the ground up makes you talented, but talent as based on knowledge and understanding, not instinct.

LaureltheQueen wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=talent

lol. . . ironic you pointed to a dictionary site. . . . what with your innate ability to correct spelling errors.

You cant base talent on just "turning wrenches". The talent is more understanding the functions, and applying that to different fields to be great at turning wrenches.

I cant work on anything but Subaru's. I dont think I have talent in "turning wrenches". But when it comes to wrenching on Subaru's, I would think I have plenty of talent in that.

-Brian

Ability is being able to put your pants on in the morning.

Skill is being able to Put them on the right way.

Talent is being able to put them on the right way the first time.

kastrix wrote:Ability is being able to put your pants on in the morning.

Skill is being able to Put them on the right way.

Talent is being able to put them on the right way the first time.

While being chased down the street by the husband.

Yukonart wrote:

kastrix wrote:Ability is being able to put your pants on in the morning.

Skill is being able to Put them on the right way.

Talent is being able to put them on the right way the first time.

While being chased down the street by the husband.

Then I'm the most talented person in the world...

Talent is an instinctive ability.

I toatally agree with this statement.

what about talent as described in our nation's current affairs? (talent for misleading the public, to talent for misleading notes on American Idol) The definition for talent in this world usually follows the money. Unfortunately, Those who truly are talented, get no recognition for their ability. I would venture that those who are "talented" (geez, this word has less meaning/recognizability the more i see/say it..) are the ones who have the biggest following and something tangible to back it up. For example, why would schools promote "culminating projects" and accountability exams? To show that someone/something has talent, and can prove it with the next best thing to fact: something tangible that can be proven/disproved, seen, heard, touched, and even in our cases, driven. And when it's proven, it becomes competition, so something can be better to the touch, feel, sound, and driven better, faster, harder, to a superlative extent, ^nth, etc... Talent is relative. As for it being an instinctive ability, well.. we could call that an "aptitude", or some inate understanding.. similar to when the answer to a difficult question blindsides you on some idle tuesday at 4.30 when you're not even thinking about it. Talent could be the correct timing and combination of left/right brain ability. Similarly, Genius is described in much the same way Talent is... (Genius-->GT= Gifted/[ul]Talented[/ul]) "It takes people a long time to learn the difference between talent and genius, especially ambitious young men and women. "
Author: Louisa May Alcott
Source: None
--Sorry if I attempted to hijack the thread into a "what is a genius?" conversation...
-=Tris

Im a genius....

I hafta agree with kastrix's statement. I've never heard of a precocious 10-year-old child that could tear a motor apart and rebuild it with 20 more crank horses just like magic.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "talent" in the other thread. Maybe I should have said the RX guy had his priorities out of order. I'm going to show my terrible opinionated side here, but I just don't think Subarus need to be on the dragstrip. Here's what I would have done in that situation: I found an RX sedan in a junkyard (I would even ponder restoring it as RX sedans are rare as rattlesnake feathers), I would put the new AWD tranny in it and such as was apparently needed, make sure everything on the engine was performing well, put some good tires and shocks on it, and go rallying. That little car could easily win some awards in the hands of the right driver on a rallyX course. Or he could put some sticky tires on it and autoX it instead, on the same principle. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass how it performs on the dragstrip...

I don't have "talent" working on cars, I have intuition. I am the most visual person in the world, if I can see for myself how something works, I can tear it completely apart and put it back together based just on my understanding from the visual demonstration. Don't ask me to identify that sound, I'll tell you I have no clue. Don't just hand me a single part, I won't know what it is until I see what it does. Just let me watch it happen and I'll get it.