legacycentral bbs

This may be hard to undestand and have really bad grammer but I need help in this matter.

I was trying to merge onto an on-ramp last Friday and was looking at the traffic I was trying to merge into. At the last second I noticed a car ( a dark grey Nissan Pathfinder)stopped in my lane while trying to merge. The onramp was an uphill one and the car blended right into the blacktop making it really hard to see. I only had a split second to react and I was afraid if I just hit the brakes I would rearend the other vehicle so I swerved around it and continued to merge into traffic. I thought I showed considerable driver skill in avoiding an accident but I guess the other driver didn't see it that way because he began following me. I was obeying all traffic laws and moved from the passing lane into the slow lane and the other driver pulled up next to me. I tried not to look but eventually I did and he had his window down and was yelling at me. I rolled down my window and yelled that I was sorry and that it was an accident. He started screaming and pointing for me to pull over. Now I did flip him the bird and said "ya, screw you" and took off because he looked very irrate and I wasn't going to pull over and have him attack me or something. He procceded to follow me again and got right on my tail. I took an exit onto a different freeway and tried to pull away from him but he came right up on me again quick. Now at this time I'm starting to get pretty scared because obviosly this guy wanted to confront me. I speed up in the passing lane and then move over into the slow lane again and he gets right up on me again. Now at this point I applied steady pressure to the brake to slow down and him along with me. I DID NOT slam on the brakes or screech my tires or anything. I figured if I got him slowed down then I could maybe speed up down an offramp and lose him. When I took off I think I flipped him the bird again (at least he says so),which I know wasn't smart when I'm fleeing from a man I believe is going to try and cause me bodily harm, but I was riding on so much adrinaline I don't even remember doing it. At this point I also picked up my cell phone and thought about calling 911 but as I sped down the offramp I came apon backed up traffic waiting at a stop sign and had to throw my phone down so I could shift ( I was driving a manual car). Now he's right behind me again in traffic and I'm getting really scared. I roll down my window and yell that it was an accident. He yelled something like "it's too late" or something like that. When I get to the stop sign I take off again fast and start looking for a public place where I can pull over so there are witnesses to whatever goes down. He takes off after me too and that is when I see a police car with it's lights on coming from back the way we came a block or two away. I could tell he was coming after us so I pulled into a Fire Fighter station thinking that the police officer was my salvation from this crazy guy that's chasing me relentlessly. Of course the guy chasing me pulled in too. As the Officer pulls in I start pointing at the other driver and the Officer scowls and points at me! The Officer and the guy in the car both jump out and start screaming at me to stay in my car, blah, blah blah. It turns out that the other driver is an off duty police officer, he called the cops and this is his co-worker cop buddy in the cop car! I'm trying to explain my actions and they keep ganging up on me and yelling at me. Now, this off duty police officer was in plain clothes, is in a private vehicle, and he NEVER identified himself as a police officer! I kept saying that if he had yelled that he was a cop and to pull over I would have pulled over immediatly and explained to him that it was an honost mistake and that I was trying to avoid an accident. They wouldn't even let me explain my side of the story and the off duty cop kept yelling that I flipped him off and was completely irate. According to him since I flipped him off I was going down. He said I could have just rolled up my window and ignored him back on the freeway and the fact that I didn't showed I was an aggresive driver and what my motives were or some thing like that. However, it's perfectly ok that he was chasing me down screaming at me to pull over and stuff. Ok, like that makes sense. His buddy cop asked him what he wanted and the off duty guy said "everything you can". I was very apoligetic and trying to explain that I thought he was trying to come after me. The on-duty officer yelled that I had a cell phone and should have called 911. I tried to explain that I was going to try to and he cut me off and wouldn't listen, saying he didn't believe I was scared of the guy following me! I repeatedly tried to tell them that I pulled into the Fire Hall because I thought it was a safe place and that if I thought I was in the wrong why would I pull over as soon as I saw a cop that was not even behind me and was pointing at the other driver clearly in fear that I was being chased. They would not listen to me at all and kept saying to tell it to the judge. Other officers showed up and it seemed that they were trying to figure out what they could nail me for and finally cited me for Reckless Driving! I think the off duty guy was trying to get more but one of the new officers kept shaking his head like that won't hold up or something. They even got some big, huge book out and were looking up stuff. Now, I think that they were saying that when I got on my brakes is what was reckless but it was totally controlled and I wasn't trying to cause an accident and he didn't come anywhere near hitting me or anything. I went from maybe 65 to 40 in 2-3 seconds. Now, this is just my guess because they never actually told me what I did to incurr the infraction but the ticket said it happend up on the freeway before the exit. As the original officer is giving me the citation the off duty guy is standing behind him smirking and trying to look all tough and stuff. The officer procedes to explain to me how to send in a not guilty plea saying that "he's sure I'll contest it", uh, ya. I asked what kind of points this would get me and the off duty guys says "you're going to lose your license for a minimum of 6 months" with a big old smile on his face! I felt completely violated and still can't believe that this happened to me. If I was chasing some guy down in my car that swerved around me and called the cops would the same thing have happened? If I were a female and this guy was chasing me would I have been cited for reckless driving then? I truly can't see how they can charge me with anything for trying to get away from a guy that's chasing me and never identified himself as a police officer! I need help, am I right in my thought's or am I a criminal and a danger to others?

Oh, sorry for the lack of paragraphs and bad grammer. I'm too emotionally spent and tired to think about that stuff right now.

Holy Schmack!! THat sucks and they are way out of line. Cops tend to think the worst of people because that's their life, they deal with that, so in your situation there was no way they weren't going to believe you. Contest it. Contest it all the way.

-Ryan

That's utter bull crap. I highly doubt an off duty officer can't make a citation, and I really doubt a cop that wasnt there can make a citation aswell. Isn't that considered heresay? This is redicilous, did the off duty officer state that he was stopped on an onramp. That sounds to me like reckless driving. Why didn't the off duty officer just call in the plates if he was so distraught with you. You wonder why we hate cops, THIS is why!

I've done that exact same thing to several people who wer4e blocking an on ramp but have never had an issue. I think this happened because you are kid. If you were a big hairy dude in a truck or a hearse the pussy wouldn't have had the balls to try anything. This guy defintely suffers from small penis syndrome. I f'n HATE cops anyway, so I probably shouldn't respond to this, but that never stopped me before, so why stop?

I got pulled over once when a guy in a small pick up was chasing me and I cut an exit ramp quick as I knew he couldn't follow. A cop sees me while going up the onramp and I pull over - great! This guy 'll understand. Yeah, right. The dickhead gets out and immediately throws the attitude and procedes to harass me down the line despite what I tell him happened (I only exaggerated the part of being scared because I truthfully enjoy that sort of thing). Officer Assmonkey even says I 'was on two wheels' which was utterly rediculous as Ive taken that same exit ramp 15 mph faster in the past without problem. Anyway, I take it to court and they don't buy it. I got the fine knocked in half, but it was only a speeding ticket (and he tried to get me for everything, but ha ha everything is legal and I don't drink and drive). In your case I'd bet they'll drop the driving recklessly if you have a good record. They have no proof to the contrary although it's unfortunate that police officers' filthy lying word is taken to be more as gospel. Write down everything now so you don't forget it and add to it if you think of other stuff later. You may want to get a lawyer too as in my experience they ignore what anyone else says as the courts are as worthless as the police. I'd bet at worst you should get improper passing.

As a final recommend, right now get NWA and blast it!

Steve

Matt isn't a kid. He's like 27 or something. He's a kid in an adults body.

This totally sucks. People at Sears thought someone had died when I kept saying "oh shit" hearing the story over the phone.

Total and complete bullshit, but you HAVE to fight it. You might be able to sue for harassment or something.

Don't let the man get you down.

Shoot if you go into the court and they ask how you plead tell them you want to plead infront of a freaken jury. That is just rediculous.

This is why cops scare me. Fight it all the way man, and good luck!

F*$(% cops.

I'm sorry that happened, Matt.

I would feel violated, too -- you were. This jackass got pissed off at you for no good reason and then abused the connections and power he had to try to make you suffer.

From reading the story you've given, you didn't do anything wrong.

Of course you will contest the citation, right? You were wrongly cited. Even though a lot of judges used to be cops, you still have a chance that a judge would see through this. Even if you are found guilty the first time around, you do have the right to appeal, and it's something you should strongly consider.

My advice is to try to work through the emotions the ordeal causes, and then try to put them aside. You're in for a legal battle, relatively small though it may be. You'll need to keep your wits about you and follow procedures and keep notes.

If you haven't done so already, write down everything you can remember about the whole event (just printing out the contents of your post would be a very good start).

Find out what part(s) of the code (the big book they were looking through was probably a copy of the code) you were cited for violating; it should be right on the citation. Look it up (a good unofficial online resource is http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/Index.html, but any local library should have a copy too) and learn all you can about that portion of the code.

Unfortunately, most states' definition of reckless driving is very vague, which helps keep people from getting out of it when they shouldn't, but also allows for tremendous abuse by police. This includes Pennsylvania's: http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/75PA3736.html

If you were cited for failure to stop when signaled by a police officer, it is a valid defense to explain that the officer was in an unmarked car and plain clothes: http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/75PA3733.html

If you were cited for impeding traffic with slow speed, it shouldn't stick since the presence of a passing lane means you weren't impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/75PA3364.html

Also, find out from the DMV what actually happens if you are convicted. I don't think you necessarily lose your license or anything like that. The fine is stiff, and the points hurt, but that guy was definitely trying to make you squirm.

Send in your not-guilty plea so that it arrives a few days before the deadline (to be safe). When you get the court date, wait until several days before the hearing and request a continuance. Being down in Maryland for work is a valid reason for a continuance. There's no reason you should make it convenient for these slimeballs.

You might also consider submitting a request for discovery, to see if they have any evidence at all that they plan on trying to present, and also to show them you understand that they aren't all-powerful and that the legal system is designed to protect people like you. If they don't respond to the request, I think you can file a motion requesting the court to order them to comply.

This sucks, dude. Like I said, you didn't do anything wrong. I guess the only things you could have done differently would have been to respond differently to the angry motorist who endangered your life, and/or to dial 911 and leave the phone on your passenger seat, thereby alerting the authorities to a problem even if you couldn't tell them what it was or where you were.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

The first time I heard it made me angry. Reading it again here makes me livid. I've had my share of problems with police as well, mostly in my younger years as it happens but that's just how it worked out. I'm always amazed at how they abandon reason at the drop of a dime. I jumped out a window one time when I was at an underage beer party with a cop close behind me who had just pulled me down to the floor by my hair. Police aren't the brightest bulbs in the box, especially the town cops. They're not all bad but it looks like you found a real blinger, or rather, he found you. It's said that they have IQ's that barely peak over 100 with the exception of detectives so keep that in mind when dealing with them. The dumb ones don't have the ability to turn off their agression once it's on.

Oh man i feel really bad for you and at the same time this story angers the hell out of me, I was charged with street racing last year along with 7 other subaru drivers on a convoy up to a rally (not speeding or doing anything wrong), luckily we got it thrown out but it took a very well known and expensive lawyer to get that done.

Completey an abuse of power, and I sincerely hope the judge sees through this B.S. I don't think i would have done anything different than you in that situation.

Seek legal counsel immediately and I wish you the best of luck!

I get scared everytime I read a post like this, because nothing like this has ever happened to me. The only times I've ever been pulled over were for legitimate reasons, and my politeness and respect usually reduces, if not eliminates, the offense.

Give em hell Matt. From what I read, you definitely have a case. I think someone that stops on an onramp is extremely stupid unless it's bumper-to-bumper traffic on the highway. I've never had to do it.

Actually, you may have a counter suit there. I would push it as far as I could in the other direction.

Thanks for all the kind words and advice guys. I'm going to talk to a lawyer this afternoon and I'll keep you guys posted as to what he say's. Every single person that has heard my story believes it's an abuse of power by this off-duty officer and that he most likely knows the charge won't stick but just wanted to screw me on legal fees as punishment!

vrg3 wrote: Of course you will contest the citation, right? You were wrongly cited.

Yes, I'm definitely contesting it. I'm going to talk to a lawyer later today.

If you haven't done so already, write down everything you can remember about the whole event (just printing out the contents of your post would be a very good start).

Ya, I plan to print out my post just to have something to go by.

Find out what part(s) of the code (the big book they were looking through was probably a copy of the code) you were cited for violating; it should be right on the citation. Look it up (a good unofficial online resource is http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/Index.html, but any local library should have a copy too) and learn all you can about that portion of the code.

Thanks. I was only cited for reckless driving and the code reads something like "(a) General rule.--Any person who drives any vehicle in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving." My citation read pretty much the same thing.

If you were cited for failure to stop when signaled by a police officer, it is a valid defense to explain that the officer was in an unmarked car and plain clothes: http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/75PA3733.html

Ya, they only cited me with reckless driving.

Also, find out from the DMV what actually happens if you are convicted. I don't think you necessarily lose your license or anything like that. The fine is stiff, and the points hurt, but that guy was definitely trying to make you squirm.

I did look it up and it's hard to follow but it looks like a minumim 6 month suspension.

Send in your not-guilty plea so that it arrives a few days before the deadline (to be safe). When you get the court date, wait until several days before the hearing and request a continuance. Being down in Maryland for work is a valid reason for a continuance. There's no reason you should make it convenient for these slimeballs.

I already sent it in. That's a good idea about the continuance, I'll do that.

You might also consider submitting a request for discovery, to see if they have any evidence at all that they plan on trying to present, and also to show them you understand that they aren't all-powerful and that the legal system is designed to protect people like you. If they don't respond to the request, I think you can file a motion requesting the court to order them to comply.

More good advice, thank you.

creel wrote:Actually, you may have a counter suit there. I would push it as far as I could in the other direction.

Ya, I'm going to ask the lawyer today if I should file a complaint against the officer's involved. I don't know if I can actually sue them or not but I'm going to ask. I think it's ridiculous that I have to spend all this time and money because he is a cop so it's ok that he had road rage and chased me down.

Does he have a counter-suit or is it too late for that? It seems to me that the off-duty officer was driving recklessly.

I don't know, we'll see when I talk to lawyer what my options are.

Ya, he was right on my ass. I would accelerate away from him and then when I'd slow down he would catch back up and get right on my tail again. He was very aggresive and I thought he had nothing but bad intentions.

Ooops, I experienced a post proapation delay there.

I hope you win this, It's very angrering that cops do this kind of crap. Also nuwan it's good to hear you guys didnt get charged, I had been wondering how it turned out

Yeah, it sucks that they can do this to you... you certainly can sue the guy to try to recover your expenses and some compensation, and you're probably more likely to get sympathy in a civil court than a criminal one... but I don't know how realistic it is to expect a favorable outcome anyway... Your lawyer can help you decide about that.

It's probably very smart to hire a lawyer just to make sure that you don't get into trouble just over a small matter of process or anything like that.

Definitely keep us posted on what happens.

Where did this whole incident occur? It also occurred to me that there may be a member of the press who would be interested in the story.

It happened here in Williamsport.

I'm leaving now to go talk to the lawyer, I'll let you all know what happens and wish me luck.

I'm with Vikash, go to a local paper. Any time the newspaper can make some form of authority look bad, they will.

The paper's a good idea. I hate how cops ride your ass even when they're in a police car. What do they think they're immune to the laws of physics? I guess they're not smart enough to know them, but they'd pull me over if I did such a stupid thing. It should be considered entrapment at least. With the spot light on road rage lately, I would think a decent lawyer could get you off. This may be what the paper's would love about it: Road Rage Cop Cites Motorist for Reckless Driving.

There was a case in CT where a guy was denied becoming an officer as he did too well on the exam. Their excuse was that (smart people) would get bored.

Steve

Brake check a cop, lol.

Next time a cop is on my ass, I'm just going to pull over. If he pulls over too, I'll say that I felt uncomfortable having someone follow me so closely, and I removed myself from a potentially hazardous situation.

They can give you a ticket for following to closely, but they are exempt. Total bullshit.

The same thing goes for speeding and red lights too.