legacycentral bbs

Yesterday I was driving the legacy in the rain for the first time and I was quite unhappy with the grip in the corners, if I get on the gas the front end just HORRIBLY understeers... I just wanted to know if this is normal and if newer subarus are the same way? I know my shocks are bad but it stays straight around the corners. Maybe I should take off my front sway bar or something? Any ideas? If I let off the gas it regains traction very quickly. I thought with AWD cars putting power into the corner was a good thing.

what are your tires like?

there michliens sp? A rated tires with maybe 30% tread left...

Its funny it has plenty of grip sliding down a dirt road and drifting at 50mph on gravel or dirt... And dry tarmac is ok, but omg wet tarmac! ECK!!! My volvos don't do that crap...

30% is kinda low amount, what type of michelins are they? If they are fairly bad wet tires to begin with, less than 1/3 the tread left will make them grip like poop

I have fwd and I can 4-wheel drift and get oversteer upon lift off in the rain. I do have a wagon, but my old GL sedan was similar. I'd try different tires maybe. The Yokohamas I have now do understeer more than the other tires I've had (Falken and Pirelli).

Steve

It's very simple. The torque of the engine lifts the front end (these chassis are notorious for this torque induced lift). Less weight on the tires, less traction. I have this problem to a pretty severe degree when I stomp on it with the gobs of torque the turbo produces.

But, that's the key... don't stomp on it. The whiteline anti-lift kit will help with this. Getting the rear suspension up to snuff will help also, so it doesn't "lean" back on it as much. Unless you want a gutless engine like a honda, this problem will be more associated with driving style than a problem with the car. There are ways to adjust to it, since you know it is going to happen. For instance more front camber and just plain ol' cranking the wheel farther since you know it wants to go straight. But careful... powered understeer can easily flick to power oversteer. That is a trick I use when driving summer tires in the snow, very nifty.

did you post in the right thread ?

I also wanted to say that awd has little to do with how the car handles as opposed to how it grips.

It's rain, wtf?

Don't smash it through a corner in the rain, and you won't understeer as much. Lift throttle, then hit it if you want the back end out, but be careful, it's easy to lose control.

I can do full 4 wheel drifts in my SS on my RE-92's in the rain (they really suck in the rain).

You shouldn't be heavy on the gas going into the turn in real slippery conditions. You can either throw the car into the turn or use breaking once in the turn to induce oversteer and then get on the throttle if you want to get rally style. If you want to take the turn normal but fast then brake hard coming into the turn, but before you actually start turning the steering wheel, then go light on the brakes as you start turning, wait until the apex and then feather the throttle taking care not to break loose or if you can anticipate and feel comfortable with the way you car will handle then you can go WOT and hold on.

These cars will do almost anything you ask of them but you have to become familiar with how they react to different conditions. You can't expect them to react the same way on wet concrete/black top as they do on gravel or dirt, it just doesn't work that way. Once you become familiar with how to drive your car in all conditions you'll become very confident (maybe too confident like me ) and you'll wear a grin ALL the time.

I love driving my car in the rain with my slippery RE-92's because I love driving at the limits and getting sideways too.

Get better tires and slow down. If you're understeering, you've gone beyond the limits of traction of the tires. If you get better tires and or other suspension stuff.....you can go faster.

Also play with your tire pressures a little.

Left foot braking, too. Sometimes to counter understeer you want to lessen the angle of the turn while shifting power forwards with brake or less throttle. Other times more angle will pull you through if you're less at the edge. It depends on angle of the wheels to the turn and available grip. But it you're plowing straight through less angle won't help, of course.

And full-time AWD definitely helps handling as using gas while turning redusec the front tires' available grip for cornering where with the AWD the some of that power is sent to the rear, increasing the lateral load the front tires can now take without losing grip while the rears also help push the car around and since their grip available is lessened by also having power applied to them, you get the rear to slide out more, yielding better balance. With FWD the set up before the turn is much more important in order to maximize grip while the AWD system is more forgiving since the handling is better balanced and the system adjusts to some dgree to counter ham-handedness. My brother-in-law's OBS can be felt being pushed through turns from the back nearly like RWD when it starts to understeer while mine either sticks or plows unless I provoke it aggressively with hand brake or left foot, but once traction is truly lost it's just going straight. My car's intention is to go straight unless I change throttle, brake, etc., but the AWD car tracks like a blood hound. I understand that wheelbase has an effect on directional change, but my sister's old '93 sedan was smiliar, just not as pronounced. A Part-time system probably wouldn't do much for handling.

Steve

In most cases I decel (via either brakes or engine braking) in a straight line before entering the turn. Then I maintain neutral front to rear balance while starting the turn. That means using a little throttle to maintain speed- not speeding up nor slowing down. Then roll on the throttle while passing through the apex.

I find this to be an effective AWD technique for both wet and dry conditions, and yields very predictable and solid results.

But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

If you are looking for more extreme driving entertainment then other techniques obviously apply.

I find trailbraking to also be very effective, but I'm FWD.

Steve

hmmm mine is quite tail happy, even off throttle into corners. could be because of the stiff ass rear wagon springs. try putting a bunch more pressure in the rear tires than the fronts and see if that helps.

try putting a bunch more pressure in the rear tires than the fronts and see if that helps. Dude its AWD thats NOT a good idea.

why is it not a good idea?

If the tire pressures are vastly different between the axles, you could be putting too much stress on the center diff. It'd be like running different size tires.

well yeah, but you obviously wouldnt want to do like 32f/46r.

yeah Im talking about a difference of no more than 5 psi or so. I strongly doubt that would be enough of a difference to cause wear in the diff. hell even 10psi difference probably wouldnt. 20 psi front and 50psi rear is another story.
try 30 and 35, then go up from there.

ultrasonic wrote:In most cases I decel (via either brakes or engine braking) in a straight line before entering the turn. Then I maintain neutral front to rear balance while starting the turn. That means using a little throttle to maintain speed- not speeding up nor slowing down. Then roll on the throttle while passing through the apex.

That's how you're supposed to do it...regardless of AWD

you should brake before the turn, so that your tires can do the job of turning...rather then braking and turning.

Me knowing how to drive is not the problem lol... I know all that fun driving stuff. Its better now the tires where at 44psi and now there at 32psi. Much more grip haha.

32f/32r, or 32f/29r?

32f/32r