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I am interested in a HID lighting kit. I know our cars accept 9003 type bulbs but I have heard that H4 are the same, or are compatable? Also has anyone tried one of these kits in their cars. Any thoughts or comments?

Don't!

There is no way to correctly retrofit an HID light source into a headlamp meant for a bulb. No way. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either lying or misinformed.

vrg3, I know that all those "HID" bulbs that are supposed to be HID but just mimic the color are crap. Are we both talking about the $400-500 conversion kits that include bulbs, ballasts, relays, wiring etc.? I thought that those would work on any car provided that the headlight type is compatable. I know of WRX owners running these kits.

Yes, we are talking about those $400-500 conversion kits. They don't include bulbs -- HID systems don't use bulbs. They include capsules, ballasts, relays, wiring, and are sold unscrupulously to those who are unwilling to inform themselves. Note they always are sold for "off-road use only." The liars selling them frequently say things like "they're not approved for street use because they're not OEM." That's not the reason. You can't use them on the street because they're unsafe!

All those WRX owners are doing something very stupid. Dollars don't buy sense.

The light source in an HID capsule is photometrically completely different from the light source in a halogen bulb. A wound tungsten filament is not shaped like an ionized-gas arc. You can't make optics designed around one work with the other. If you try, you end up creating lots of glare (especially when it's raining, foggy, or snowing) without improving seeing.

Furthermore, HID capsules can only contain one arc. You usually can't have high and low beams both with one capsule. So you can't replace a dual-filament bulb with one HID capsule. Most of these "conversion kits" eliminate high beams, often explaining that it's okay because of the improved low beams. That's utter nonsense, since high and low beam patterns are designed vastly differently and can't substitute for one another.

There are some approaches that try to give dual beams by somehow underdriving the HID capsule or by moving the capsule. Both are completely useless. Intensity is not the important difference between high and low beams, and moving the capsule precisely enough to maintain aim is impractical without an entire lamp system built around it.

Furthermore, the ability to flash your high beams is an important safety requirement, and HID-based high beams can't do that unless the HIDs are run all the time, since they take a while to warm up. Some people have tried strapping halogen bulbs alongside HID capsules to try to fix this... That's a bad idea for so many reasons I don't even know where to start.

Your stock headlights are actually pretty good. Don't cripple them. Instead, upgrade your wiring harness with heavy-gauge wires and relays, and install a good set of bulbs (last I checked, Sylvania Xtravisions are on sale at Advance Auto Parts, and also have a mail-in rebate on them). Then thank yourself for actually improving your lights for a tiny fraction of what you were thinking of spending on turning your lights into garbage.

Good thing I asked. Man, those vendors selling the kits are convincing. I already have Xtra Visions and they are alright but I guess its time to deyellow my headlights again. Thanks alot vrg3, glad to have people like you on the forum.

You're welcome.

Cool, you already have one of the best light sources in existence for your headlights.

Yeah, I need to deyellow a pair of lights to replace mine soon... I have cracks on the face of my driver side light from hitting a bat at 60 mph at 3 am! It freaked me out because the bat flew up onto my windshield after hitting my headlight.

How did you deyellow yours last time?

vrg3 wrote:How did you deyellow yours last time?

I used a method I saw on here somewhere. I used my sisters nail polish and scrubed the crap out of the lenses. Then I used some 3M scratch remover. Made a big difference but it needs to be done again.

Cool... You might try Josh's method the next time around, using sandpaper and then clear coat paint. It should last much longer since the clear coat will protect it.

How long did the acetone-and-polish last?

vrg3 wrote:Cool... You might try Josh's method the next time around, using sandpaper and then clear coat paint. It should last much longer since the clear coat will protect it.

Yeah, I'll do a search and find that post. Maybe I will get around to it this Sunday. I'm in the process of "winterizing" so I'll add that to my list or things to do.

How long did the acetone-and-polish last?

It lasted a couple of months. Its been real rainy here recently so that might have accelerated the yellowing process, that or I just didn't do a very good job.

Here you go: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=739

The rain in DC's pretty caustic...

One time I drove from DC to Ithaca in the middle of the humid summer, going pretty fast. I got up here and looked at the front of the car. It was covered with bugs. I cleaned most of them off but there were some that I just couldn't remove. For the next month, I lived with the bugs on the windshield, bumper, and side mirrors. It rained every day, so you'd think eventually they'd rinse free. They didn't. But then I went down to DC again. One quick storm of DC rain, and the bugs were gone.

Maybe the rain took the polish off the lights faster... Was it like a wax?

Thanks for the link, I'll def. do it this weekend. It was interesting because when I was waxing the car a couple of days ago, I sat down while waiting for the wax haze, and I was kinda staring at my car and from that angle with the sun and all, the lights looked so glass like and clear. Then I went up closer and they looked aged and yellow Oh well, hopefully Josh's method will do the trick. Maybe I'll take some before/after pics. Thanks again.

damn vikash, i wish you could explain to everyone how important it is not to screw with your headlights.

Yeah. I wish people weren't so dumb. What posesses them to throw all their mental capacities out the window when it comes to lighting? All you have to do is a tiny bit of intelligent research (i.e. look for unbiased information instead of accepting marketing drivel). A tiny tiny bit.

And what posesses people to ignore the facts when they are presented to them?

Sigh.

It's funny, a certain group of people actually think fluting on the headlight lenses is just a design element. Even if you tell them otherwise.

okay it's not that funny.

actually i'm going to pm you in a minute...

What works good is a 3M medium grit wax. I used it on my lights and they came out beautiful.

Thanks for the headlight polishing link!

70% of my driving is mountain roads. This time of year, it's dark going to and from work. My lens' are hideous. The dull yellow just defuses the light and even the brights are useless. I just ordered a set of Hella 530 driving lights. After pricing new lens' at $200ea and $50ea for used, I figured I'd get better lighting from aux. lights. Still, I will try polishing the headlight lens...might even re-wire the headlights while I'm at it.

Thanks again.

You should definitely do the sanding/clearcoating trick. It worked WONDERS for me. Seriously, you'll be amazed at what an hour or two of sanding/clearcoating can do to the headlights.

-Brian

Vikash -

I rode in a Stage5+ (VF22, 22psi, TurboXS V2 Dogbox. Ridiculously fast car) WRX tonight that had an HID conversion (HID ballast setup in stock housings).

Sure as hell threw a TON of light, but I could see how easily it would glare in poor conditions. They were BRIGHT but scattered. No cutoff.

That car was so fast, it was absolutely ridiculous.

Even in good conditions those HID hackjobs reduce your ability to see.

Ever play with a Maglite? The kind that adjusts the relative bulb-lens distance as you rotate the end? When you get the focus right, you get a bright hot spot that tapers off in all directions. But what happens if you get the focus even very slightly off? You get a "halo" effect; there's a dim spot in the center and a brighter circle around it. You have a local minimum where there's supposed to be a local maximum.

When you force an HID capsule into a bulb's location, you get the same effect. Right at the spot where you're supposed to have more light, you have much less. And where you're supposed to have less, you have more.

So why did this guy ruin his headlamps?

BAC5.2 wrote:Vikash -

I rode in a Stage5+ (VF22, 22psi, TurboXS V2 Dogbox. Ridiculously fast car) WRX tonight that had an HID conversion (HID ballast setup in stock housings).

Sure as hell threw a TON of light, but I could see how easily it would glare in poor conditions. They were BRIGHT but scattered. No cutoff.

That car was so fast, it was absolutely ridiculous.

I rode in my dad's AMG 55 last night as well. It had the HID option on it. I now believe what was written by Daniel Stern's site about even stock HIDs being detrimental to long range night vision. My eyes would unwittingly be drawn towards the ground right in front of the car (where the light thrown out was brightest). Kinda like a moth attracted to light... I didn't realize I was focusing in front of the car!!

Yep. And that extra foreground illumination makes you intuitively feel like you can better, of course... It's a scary situation when people think they can see better than they actually can.

And that Benz actually has much better HID lights than most.

wow I didnt know this about hids. I guess I'll stick with the good ol fassion bulbs for now.