legacycentral bbs

Ok, A guy I work with has a 5-spd 94SS and an 01 forester.
It's been snowing pretty good up here in the North Wilds for awhile, so the roads get dicey. We carpool to save on gas, and even as a passenger I can feel the difference in the driving.

The 70/30 (or close to that) split that the automatic has causes the car to slide more than the manual does.

Like today, driving my truck, I put it into the ditch because of icy conditions. ( This is why I don't drive the SS in bad weather.) The 70/30 split in the truck makes it slide more than the 50/50 of the SS.

Now, all I need is limited slip front and rear.

Oh, to have an endless bank account.

Back to work.

It's the truth. The 4EAT (which has a 90/10 split in normal conditions) will never get more power to the back wheels as fast as a 5MT because the 5MT is already sending more power to the back wheels. A very very small amount of time is still slower than no time at all.

I like the 5MT better because I'd still have my SS if it had one.

Actually, I wouldn't bash the 4EAT's AWD system too much. It's superior to the viscous coupling. The newer VTD 4EAT's definitely have a better AWD system IMO. I'd sooner have the center diff/AWD system they have. It has 45/55 torque split which is accomplished by gears, and uses an electronic clutch pack to lock the carrier gear to the sun gear or something like that to cause 50/50 torque split.

I think the sti tranny has similar clutch pack technology, and it's MT. If subaru could implement something similar on their 5MT tranny, it'd be a much better AWD system.

Yes, the STi is the only Subaru MT to use a clutch pack instead of a viscous coupling.

The viscous coupling is dinosaur technology and is so simple a 5-year-old could understand it. But it works. The only problem with it is that it isn't the best idea for gas mileage... If I remember correctly, all the 2005 Subaru AT's actually get 1mpg better in town than the manuals, which shows that the efficiency of the system not only surpasses the MT system, but makes up for the slightly-less efficient, heavier AT.

So basically, for simplicity and reliability, go with the MT AWD, but for efficiency and technology, go with the AT AWD.

Yea! Alright, turned this thread AROUND! Ya'lls was goin' off on tha AT, then BAM! Someone shows up with good info on why the AT still kicks ass. hehe, I loved my auto, still do.
Although the 50/50 split does sound very comforting...
Cipher would be proud..

The difference in the power split is really apparent when tighly turning (180 degrees) in the snow. Turning the wheel all the way and getting on the gas doesn't give as nice a radius with the 4EAT. That sentence was a disaster but you know what I mean.
Of course, we don't get AWD just to turn around so I'm not talking crap about the 4EAT.

I like the 5MT because heel-toe downshifts, and rev-matching, and double clutching make you cool.

All I have to say about this is in a good chunk of driving a 4eat, i'd guesstimate 75-90% of the time depending on your driving style, you are not with a 90/10 split. It's really not an accurate portayal of the power distribution to say a 4eat is 90/10.

i thought with the viscous coupling the manual slipped a bit anyway? Enough to negate the benefit of full time over the at, the 10 or whatever takes care of inertia.

What do the DCCD 5MT's use clutch or viscous? I know they come with a clutch rear diff.

The DCCD is a clutch pack IIRC.

DCCD has to be some kind of clutch pack as there's no practical way to adjust a viscous diff on the fly.

Steve

evolutionmovement wrote:DCCD has to be some kind of clutch pack as there's no practical way to adjust a viscous diff on the fly.

The only thing you can do with a viscous coupling is lock it, a la 80's Subarus with Fulltime 4WD with Locking Diff...

they used a viscous coupling? I thought the center on those bad boys was open when not locked?

I dunno for sure. I always thought it was. I could be wrong.

On the STI, isn't the center dif the only clutch pack dif? The rear is VLSD isn't it?

I like the MT better because they are faster, you have better control, you can heel-toe and rev match as Phil said and when putting the car through the turns and shifting it induces almost the same amount of pleasure as masturbation. I like that, I like it a lot...

Lets see an auto do that, hehe.

I like my hands at 10 and 2, meine froind..
..well, except when they're strokin', smokin', or chokin'!
See an auto do what now, biatch?

Heh, lovely thing 'bout an auto is you can have one hand eternally free to do... whatever you want. Heh. Now, I'd rather have a manual in my car because it does feel like you're more a part of the vehicle with one, but I'm not complaining about the auto I've got. As long as it can handle the modifications I've got planned for the engine, it's fine with me.

Then again, I've got a lovely FWD too, so maybe that changes things somewhat. XD

91legacy_sleeper wrote:I like my hands at 10 and 2, meine froind..
..well, except when they're strokin', smokin', or chokin'!
See an auto do what now, biatch?

Put them at 9 and 3, where they should be . At 9 and 3, your arms don't cross over one another when turning the wheel sharply. The angles that your arms are at, at 9 and 3, allow you more percise control when sawing the wheel through short, sharp turns. Just allows you to use a wider range of muscles than with your hands closer together. And for saftey, if the wheel is turned, and the airbag goes off, your top arm blows off to the side, and not across your chest.

Not sure where I read that, but it makes sense. Plus, the wheel even has little pits for your hands at 9 and 3 .

The STI has a clutch pack center diff, manually or automatically controlled. The rear diff is a vicous coupling, and isn't the front a helical suretrac unit?

The DCCD 5MT's were clutch packed IIRC, just like the STi DCCD trannies. It's not that the new STI tranny is the only MT using a clutched center diff. It's the only USDM manual tranny using a clutched center diff.

If i remember correctly, in 1st and 2nd gear, the 4eat has a 50/50 split, where you'd likely be sliding around a bit anyway.

Close, Phil. . .

My (2004) car has the SureTrac front differential. . .

The 2005 has a helical front differential.

The rest of it looks good, though.

BAC5.2 wrote:Put them at 9 and 3, where they should be . At 9 and 3, your arms don't cross over one another when turning the wheel sharply. The angles that your arms are at, at 9 and 3, allow you more percise control when sawing the wheel through short, sharp turns. Just allows you to use a wider range of muscles than with your hands closer together. And for saftey, if the wheel is turned, and the airbag goes off, your top arm blows off to the side, and not across your chest.

I'm glad someone agrees with me.

in drivers ed they taught us between 8-9 and 3-4, due to the airbags in cars now

Pffft. . . when I took driver's ed, airbags were a novelty.