legacycentral bbs

This question is related to my friend's STi (I know you all are tired of hearing about it...) but here's the deal. About a week before I did the bumper work we started noticing a bumping coming from the right rear wheel. We couldn't tell if it was a bent rim or possibly a faulty balljoint or something else. It is noticable at slow, i.e. parking lot, speeds. We ruled out the bent rim on the fact that he hasn't hit anything that hard or fast and by the fact that the front tire/rim is perfectly fine. So he took it to the Subaru dealership (the local one is a little pissy, they wouldn't even give him screws for his front license plate since he bought the car in Greensboro N.C. because the dealership here didn't have any 05's at the time he was in the market). First they told him he'd have to get all new tires and then after some more talking to them they went ahead and actually tried to find the problem before blindly fixing it. Well they told him they'd have to balance all the tires before they could tell him anything, so they did and now they are telling him that he has a flat spot in that tire but that his overall circumference is still in spec with his other tires so he can choose to replace the tires or just run it with a flat spot (not an option as far as we're concerned). Now what really has us boggled is how the hell do you produce a single flat spot that big on a single tire on an AWD car that has 5500 miles on it. Considering the first 3000 were break-in miles at that. They are trying to tell him it's from sliding or something (which if you're sliding the wheel is still rotating anyways). Any opinions on how this could happen or do you think the dealership is full of shit and didn't really give it a look like they should have? Thanks guys and thanks on my friend's behalf too.

Lee

Mid corner or uneven friction coefficient surface causing lock up to that single wheel?

Steve

Parking brake slides.

The thing that gets us is that he doesn't do e-brake slides (infact I was the first do one with his car when we were playing in the snow) and I know he hasn't played with the ebrake since. That and the flat spot is only on one tire. As far as uneven sliding - he's only got little over 5k on the car and tires, which while I know is enough to put some wear on tires, he hasn't been pushing the corners that hard. We're going to the dealership this afternoon to get the car back and I want them to show me exactly where the flat spot is as I'm still not convinced that's the problem. Not to say it isn't but I'd like to see it myself if I can.

Is the flat spot on the tire or des the wheel have a flat spot? You need to look at both the inside and the outside of the rim to tell, preferably while it's spinning.

Steve

We picked up the car and couldn't look at the inside of the wheel (unless you mean the backside?) but there is definately a flat spot in the tire a good 3 inches wide across the majority of the width. Still not sure how, best guess now is that the ebrake got iced on that wheel and took a little to break lose and he didn't notice somehow since it was on the back wheel and all the excess power? My mechanic said he can put tires, mounted and balanced on all 4 rims for $470 so that's what I think Matt's going to do. Still boggles us though.

I doubt it was the e-brake freezing. LSD's would have broken it loose.

It could have simply been a defective tire. Try to get them all warrantied before spending money.

I tend to agree with you Phil and I'd forgotten about the LSD's with the ice, good point.

I personally believe that it was a defective tire but Matt's driven the STi the way an STi should be so there is definate wear on the tires and we argued with the dealership till we were blue in the face and they won't warrenty the tire. They said we'd have to take it up with Bridgestone if wanted to keep trying to pursue any warrenty issues. But the dealer won't give any kind of acknowldegement that the tire could be defective, just kept blaming it on the driver, so I don't know what kind of leverage Matt would have with Bridgestone.

Ask them to explain how it's driver error to flat spot ONE tire. Not all 4, as would happen if doing a locked-wheel full slide, but ONE tire. Not just the rears, as would happen with an e-brake turn, but ONE tire. There's no way that an 05 STi could flat spot just one tire, that severely. It would have to be all 4, or at the very least the rear 2.

If all of us can't figure it out, what makes you think some retarded monkey at a dealership can? Not every tire is immaculate from the factory, a small margin of the tires that come out can be defective. Firestone Wilderness AT's anyone?

Find another dealership. And file a complaint, directly with the owner of that dealership, as well as the BBB. Do not go through Bridgestone for a warranty until absolutely necessary.

BAC5.2 wrote:Ask them to explain how it's driver error to flat spot ONE tire. Not all 4, as would happen if doing a locked-wheel full slide, but ONE tire. Not just the rears, as would happen with an e-brake turn, but ONE tire. There's no way that an 05 STi could flat spot just one tire, that severely. It would have to be all 4, or at the very least the rear 2.

That's exactly what we tried doing. We went around in circles Lord knows how many times with the guy and didn't get anywhere explaining exactly that. I'll tell Matt to try another dealership and see what we can do. I personally agree with you in that I think it's a defect but I'm not sure how to prove it so they'll replace the tire, then comes the issue of getting it shaved to match the rest. Keep the opinions coming though and any additional arguements you can think of in our favor feel free to give.

What were they saying?

Just ask them to explain, step by step, how you can flatspot ONE tire. Debunk everything they say, it should be easy, and back them into a corner. Don't be aggressive, but just be firm. Do not threaten, but request to speak to someone higher in the food chain. Not a supervisor, as they often take the dealership side to not get yelled at.

Speak to the head of parts, or the owner of the dealership. You have to let them know that you are willing to do what ever it takes to get what you deserve.

The purpose of a warranty is to protect you against manufacturer defects. This is one, and they cannot prove in any way that it's not. You CAN prove that it is. High School Physics could prove it is.

Phil, we've backed them into the corner at both the dealership here and the one in Greensboro. The one in Greensboro was only able to say that the flat spot could be produced by being airborn and then they would say or a variety of other external factors though they could never actually give any external factors. None of them could give any reasons but when backed into a corner they refuse to give any warrenty or agree that it's a defect in the tire. This circle happened multiple times and my friend is pretty good at talking to people to get what he wants. Granted he wasn't able to get the owner of the dealership himself. Getting the owner of the dealership himeslf is not an easy task. I've suggested he now just calls SOA and start bitching to them. I agree with you 100% that it's a defect tire but trying to convince someone that the flat spot on a tire is due to a defect and not due to aggressive driving, which is apparent by the elevated tire wear on the other tires, is hard as shit to do. They just refuse to believe that it's a defect on their part and they won't pay up. Like I said they told Matt that he must have been airborn, which if he ever did that with his gf in the car she'd bitched him out so bad. They just won't admit that they can't say how it happened. I'll tell Matt to keep fighting it but he's running out of options.

Being airborne would not cause a flat spot like that on just one tire. How do they figure that?

Coming down with the rear wheels locked? Still, both rears would flat spot.

Coming down HARD enough to flatspot a tire, would result in some damage, as well.

RE750's aren't long life allseasons, they are high performance tires, and they wear as such.

If you can't get to the dealership owner (you usually can, though), then it might be OK to go to Bridgestone.

Go to the dealership and have them put, in writing, exactly why you are being refused warranty. Take those outrageous claims of making the car airborne, landing at a 45 degree angle, with the e-brake engaged, and the right rear on asphalt with the other three in dirt, and go to Bridgestone. Complain to SOA about the situation also, and see if you can at least get ONE tire, shaved to match, if not all 4.

I hardly consider it impossible to flatspot a tire, having done it twice myself (although once without antilock brakes). The one time I did it on a farly new tire, I bitched until they replaced the tire under warranty

definitely just get one tire shaved to match, should run you about 130 (tire rack shaves to tread depth specs btw)

Thanks for all the help and info guys, from me and on behalf of Matt. If we can't get them to warranty the tire he'll just get one shaved probably. My mechanic/shop offered him 470 for all 4 mounted and balanced though it'd be more of an allseason tire but he's considering that a little too I think. Either way I'll let you know the outcome.