legacycentral bbs

My car has been running fine. On the first nice day in months I went out to a local diner. I came back to the car and started and *immediately* shut it off. We were deciding where we were gonna go next and I didn't want to sit there with the engine idling. After 5 minutes we were ready and I tried to start her up and it wouldn't. The car would turn-and-turn-and-turn but, never catch. It was like there was no fuel but, I had a half a tank. The only thing I could think of was vapor lock but, a) it was only about 70-ish and b) EFI should prevent that kind of stuff. I called my brother to give me jump; same thing. We tried push-starting; same thing.

I read all of the posts in the "My Car Hates Me" thread and I have a similar problem with one major difference. The car is turning fine but it never catches and fires up. My battery is about a year old. I replaced it last ('03) winter. The fuel filter is about the same age.

I'm stuck. Literally.

-Brian

Can you hear the fuel pump if you listen carefully for it when the ignition is turned on?

If not, maybe the connection under the rear seat went bad... it tends to get corroded or otherwise damaged.

You could just try sitting on the passenger side of the rear seat and bouncing up and down a couple times to shift the connector into a different position.

If that works, fix the wiring the next chance you get.

You have air, you had spark a moment before, im looking at fuel.

Sounds like the old carby fuel in the cyl problem.

I *think* that as the engine dies after losing spark it sucks a little fuel from the injectors for the next startup.

The solution on my bmw (which had a wierd fi system) was to hold the gas down as you start the car. I'd try taking out a spark plug and pouring a tiny bit of gas down there if that doesnt work.

Thanks for the suggestions. After reading the responses and some other posts I went back to the car tonight. I turned the ignition to the on position and I didn't hear anything. Maybe there was too much traffic noise but, nothing was making any noise when I turned the ignition to "on". Then, I pulled out the rear seat and took a look. There were two connectors. One was grey and one was white. Neither looked burnt or crushed. I'm assuming it was the white one from this pic: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=1216
I wiggled both harnesses and I tried to start again. Nothing. I pulled the "out" hose from the fuel filter, grabbed a bottle from the street and had my friend start the car. There was no fuel coming from the filter at all. I was assuming that a stream of fuel would come out?
I didn't have a meter with me so I couldn't check the voltage at the harness. I also didn't check the relay because I wasn't sure I'd be able to get to it. Plus, it wasn't very safe on a busy street. Is there a fuse besides the relay?
Short of checking the relay/fuse and the power to the fuel pump, I'm assuming that the fuel pump is dead? Do they just go like that? If so, should I get an OEM or would it be cheaper to replace it with one of those Walbros? Should I trust a used one?

Let's first make sure the ECU is powering up. Does the Check Engine light turn on when you turn the ignition on? Are you getting spark?

Have you tried putting a little fuel in the cyl yet??

bman wrote: Short of checking the relay/fuse and the power to the fuel pump, I'm assuming that the fuel pump is dead? Do they just go like that? If so, should I get an OEM or would it be cheaper to replace it with one of those Walbros? Should I trust a used one?

They do just go like that. Why not do a little upgrade if you're at it? Used will work. Depends on the miles on it.

vrg - the Check Engine light looks good. In fact, all my lights and guages seem to be fine: oil, fuel, temp, headlamps etc.

scott - I didn't try fuel in the cyl. When there was no fuel pumping from the filter I didn't think there was any point. If I do that will it bring in more fuel?

If I do upgrade which one would be the best "drop in" option? My mechanic doesn't like to fiddle with stuff at all. He would order the factory replacement. So the best choice would be one which could use the same connecting harness as the OEM. I read that there was a Walbro which was "close". What kinds of mods need to be done to get it to work? Also, is the upgrade more expensive than the OEM one?

I'll still take a look the fuse/relay before I call the fuel pump dead.

-Brian

OK, I went to the dealer and picked up a relay ($35). That sucker is a real pain to get to. It took me over a half an hour to find it. I had to take the bottom of the dash off and even then had to twist my arm to even touch it. After another hour I finally got it into a position where I could take the old relay off. I tried starting. No luck. So it looks like I'm gonna have to order a new fuel pump.
Is the Walbro 342 the closest model for my car? Can someone tell me kinds of mods I am looking at for the pump?

your not really looking at any mods if you get the right pump. With my walbro the only thing i had to do was shorten a piece of hose. If you pull the vacuum line off the brake booster, have someone pour some gas in there while you try to start it. That'll get fuel into the intake manifold and you'll be able to see if that's your problem.

You might also pull a sparkplug and look to see if there is a lot of carbon in the cylinders. Usually the carbon doesnt really become a problem unless the engine has been sitting for a long time but you never know.

dzx - which Walbro did you get, the 341 or the 342?

Thanks,
Brian

I don't remember it was soo long ago, sorry.

I got the 341 with the installation kit and everything fit perfectly.

I think mine was a 341 too but not 100% sure. I do remember it cost about 98 dollars with shipping.

dzx wrote:If you pull the vacuum line off the brake booster, have someone pour some gas in there while you try to start it. That'll get fuel into the intake manifold and you'll be able to see if that's your problem.

Please do not do this. For one....it won't work if you try and use the vacuum line since there's a check valve in that line. Second, if you get fuel in the intake manifold....it's not really going to work too well if at all.

Just get a fuel pressure test gauge, and hook it up. That will tell you if the pump is good or not.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
The probelm wound up being a dead fuel-pump. I had my car towed to my mechanic who asked if I wanted to replace it with a Lappen's fuel pump. I was tired of not driving my car for over a week so I told him to go ahead and replace it with a generic. It was a good thing too because the pump mount had several rusted nuts on it and he had to chisel them off. I was in no mood to deal with those.

thanks again,
Brian

Legacy777 wrote: Please do not do this. For one....it won't work if you try and use the vacuum line since there's a check valve in that line. Second, if you get fuel in the intake manifold....it's not really going to work too well if at all.

It worked fine on my car, the idea was to get fuel into the cylinders to see if the car starts and troubleshoot if its the pump, not to get it running permanently.

It also works fine on the chevy, porsche and bmw we have sitting around. Like i said, the idea isnt for it to work well, its for it to work at all. You know what you need to start an engine, fuel, air, and ignition. Without one it won't work. It's not hard to troubleshoot any of them. But the pressure gauge on the fuel is fine too.

Glad you got it figured out and running again.