legacycentral bbs

Hey guys, on my 1st month with the new 1991 Legacy L FWD. It currently has the stock EJ22 engine. I have been researching a lot of different things I can do to pull more HP. I don't want to spend HUGE amounts of money on the car but I would like 180-190 HP at the crank. I have been told to just install a EJ25 but some of the research I have done has led me to believe that another ej22 engine would be a better option. Basically I want an engine to drop in and be dependable. But the engine must be buildable in the future (around 250 HP). I have been working on cars for years now...unfortunatley everything I have done has been in my own garage working on cars and replacing stock parts. I am willing to put in the time to learn everything. I just need someone to point me in the right direction.

Thanks
-Brent

My impression of the EJ22 is that there isn't much potential for uping the HP. Your best option from a financial stand point would probaly be to drop in an EJ22T. Its one of the strongest blocks Subaru has in the states. Its got enormous potential for mods. If you have the money a EJ20T or an EJ25 would be awesome but expensive. Then the issue of ECU wiring comes in (OBD I vs. OBD II and such). 180-200 hp at the crank is a very doable thing with the EJ22T. BAC5.2's Legacy SS has roughly 215hp at the wheels IIRC.

180-190 hp at the crank on an normally aspirated ej22 is a pipe dream without spending a lot of money, however your version of a lot of money may be different then mine.

I don't mean to hi-jack your thread realfinn but...Josh can you throw out a dollar figure. EJ22ts are hard to come by in my neck of the woods. Building up in engine looks like it's the only option for me. If you don't have a dollar figure, can you give me a parts list?

Maybe swap in turbo pistons and use discarded WRX turbo parts from someone who upgraded if you can't get the right block. It's not that the N/A engine is junk and the WRX block is open also, so that may be an option. However, getting most of it with the block shipped would probably not be much more unless you know someone who upgraded their WRX and wants to get rid of some stuff. Am I correct in stating that the exhaust manifold would bolt up to the SOHC heads?

Have you tried www.car-part.com?

Steve

Yes, the WRX exhaust manifold will bolt right up to any first-generation Legacy EJ22 heads.

So if I could find an ej22t from the website you listed, won't I need the ecu and harness etc.?

The NA block is plenty strong, it is the NA pistons and combination of boost and high compression that causes bad things. When I wasnt detonating, I was getting 160 ish whp out of the NA block on NA pistons.

It would be pretty painful to try to get an EJ25 up to those horsepower numbers. Not to say it hasn't been done, I'm just saying it would be expensive, painful, and unreliable. EJ22NA? No.

If you are going to do a swap anyway, you might as well do a EJ20T. It is much more common, many aftermarket options, a huge base of knowledge about what works best, etc... EJ22T may be a better engine, but it's just not the mainstream whereas EJ20T upgrades are like jelly beans.

You could dump 2,000 or more....and not really even get to that point.

I've got around 1000-1500 in engine type mods I think. There's probably more, but I don't recall the costs. You could do cams, but short of engine management, the only other things to get more power would be port and polishing and cleaning things up....but then you're looking at a lot of money.

What is the most power you can get from 2.2 and 2.5 engines if you keep them NA? According to xcceleration.com, it is possible to get 250+ hp out of a 2.5l engine. http://www.xcceleration.com/imp-gallery-rs.htm Honda S2000 also has 240hp with both 2.0 and 2.2 engines. So, I am wondering what are the limits for 2.2 and 2.5 Subaru's engines.

The question should maybe how much $ per hp for NA subaru engines.

I'm gonna take a guess at what would be required for a 220hp 2.2. This would be approaching the limit for an engine that would last.

cams
ported head
custom pistions with a cr bump
spaghetti exh mani
reshaped CC
solid lifters (is it possible?)
exh
eng. management
triple valve springs
???
???



You're looking at big $ for an engine that isn't gonna feel that awesome at lower rpm and idle, as there is no variable valve control.

Yeah, turbos suck, but there's no practical way to have a powerful na subie w/o dropping in a eg33/ez30.

I think better heads would be necessary. Just jumping the rev limit up a grand if you could get it to breath there would bump the HP number up, but at the sacrifice of bottom end power with the cam profiles necessary. I'd get lighter pistons also. What good is HP without torque? It's one reason I don't go for Hondas.

Steve

id say ej20g 96 wrx/ver2 sti motor. closed deck, come fairly cheap (from what ive seen anyways) already has one of the more coveted blocks and turbos avaible and has 260chp at least .

put one of thoes babies in and your done.

Woah there...! Pardon my interjection, but I was under the impression that the EJ22's (n/a or turbo) were closed deck configs. Besides, some internals, the turbo and a few other odds and ends I thought both the EJ22 and EJ22T were pretty much the same.
Am I incorrect in assuming they both use the same block?
Forgive my ignorance

From the Legacy Central library:

"No, the engine displacement is the same, but the engine is very different. In fact, it's unique to the US market to the best of our knowledge. The block is of a closed-deck design, ideal for high-boost applications. The crank and rods are forged, while the pistons are cast. This combination should be good for at least 300hp with proper engine management without needing to replace any internals."

"Subaru engineers discarded the non-turbo's open deck cylinder design in favor of a closed deck layout. Coolant passages were also rerouted and enlarged, oil spray jets were tapped into the main oil galley and the main bearings were modified to keep a higher volume of oil at the crankshaft. In addition, a camshaft support was added to feed oil and coolant to the turbo, and the pistons were given a dished crown (which lowers the compression ratio from 9.5:1 to 8.0:1), stronger rings, longer wrist pins and a molybdenum coating."

there's a ton of differences between the two blocks.

Well goddamn... I feel like a total boner. The n/a block would most likely be able to handle a turbo installation with proper tuning, though... right?

*edited for embarassing grammatical errors -is grammatical even a word?*

elkaboom wrote:Well goddamn... I feel like a total boner. The n/a block would most likely be able to handle a turbo installation with proper tuning, though... right?

*edited for embarassing grammatical errors -is grammatical even a word?*

Where the heck did i leave my search stick??

The trick is the "tuning". As I have proven, you can pump alot of power out of the NA block. As I have also proven twice, the compression ratio and stock timing = broken pistons.

Getting 250 chp out of the stock NA block is feasible in my eyes, about 12 psi. However, the moment you start stepping over 6 psi you need engine managment cause it will knock like a muther!

Ok, so I found a WRX front clip from a (2000 model year). The car had been wrecked but the front end survived. The clip basically comes with the engine and the wire harness (No computer seen). Has anyone done this swap? I was just wondering what I was going to have to do to get this engine into my car. The block looks like is pretty much the same. I have been told that motor mounts and transmission should line right up. Is this true?

What else will I need?

Thanks guys, your helping a lot.


Oh yeah, anyone else had a problem with everyone that drives a neon/sunfire wanting to race you?

You'll need the crossmember from a WRX or Turbo Legacy too.