legacycentral bbs

so on a hunch today, two hours before my shift starts; I go outside and pull off the belts, and go to take the crankshaft bolt out to inspect the keyway...

using a 22mm socket and 1/2" wrench, I discovered that the bolt isn't tight, at all. infact, it requires no force to back it out.

pull off the crank pulley to find out just what I don't want to:

the key on mycrank is broken, and the keyway on the crankshaft pulley is worn out.

I'm out of options on what to do, where can I pick up an EJ22T; minus the accessories, cheaply?

how long can I drive on this thing if I tighten it all the way down?

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what, is the reply button missing?

Is your rig a turbo already? Cause I have an extra crank if you want to rebuild. Pretty sure the cranks are the same NA to Turbo.

not turbo yet; N/A.


do you know where I can get an EJ22T in running condition for a good price, doug?


I'm looking at around $500 to spend; I don't know what it costs to ship these things, but if I can do it for another $100 to $150 or less that'll be great.

If I did, I would have bought it!

I am always watching Ebay. I have two extra motors right now but they are both NA.

there's several listed on car-part.com; but I'm worried about the quality of an engine bought from a salvage yard; I figure if they've got fewer than 150 thousand miles on them, they're still in good shape to be run as-is.

Any engine I bought (and have done so) that is not in a running vehicle, I just do the light rebuild on, which is rebuilt heads, rings and pistons (and assorted seals and gaskets). You also get to install a new clutch as a bonus. Then, even if built to stock specs, you have a "new" engine!

20 thousand miles on my clutch, still showing good condition - I want to save costs while I can, I'm down to about $800 to spend; with the change allowing me to survive till my next paycheck.

on my to-do list is tires and brakes, the brakes are good but the rotors are warped to hell and back (expensively).

I'd love to say I want to get by with this as cheaply as possible, but I know the cheaper you go, the more opportunity you have to end up replacing crap later.


I'm going to look at a motor online for around $500 to $600

any idea how much it costs to ship one of these things? on average? or how about just your experience?

No idea on shipping. All vehicles and motors I have purchased I have gotten locally

thanks for your time with my questions.

one last one; think this engine swap job could be pulled off in a days time? 12 hours or so?

assuming no hangups, that is. I don't expect any, but you never know.


I've seen some of them pull engines in under 2 hours, I'm sure it'd take about 2 to 3 hours to go back in; I believe I'm going to have a professional auto mechanic instructor and his auto shop on my side when I take care of this.

Swapping in the turbo motor, with turbo of course, is not going to be easy for someone not versed in the turbo motor, much less Subarues, unless they have been reading up on this web site!

The engine pull and install is easy as pie. But it the turbo stuff thats gonna be the nightmare if you have never seen all the parts and where they go. I am not saying it can't be done (of course it can...) but its gonna take some serious doing to get all the nessesary new parts in the right place and functional.

If you are just swapping in a used/new/rebuilt NA, then you won't have any serious problems and should be able to do it in about 4-8 hours.

I'll be swapping in the turbo motor less the turbo.

I suspect that means closing off the ports on the cylinder head, or connecting them together; rather.

for the oil? I don't know yet; still thinking about that one.

want some free rotors?

you pick up.

Thank you for the offer! I ran the shipping quote from San Jose to here (clearly I'm too far away to pick them up) and it's the same cost for me to have them shipped to me from you versus buying them new at a parts store.


No need to worry about it immediately anyway, if I've got the cash left over I'll drop it on rotors. This is the biggie first.

one thing...
if you're planning on using a turbo with the turbo engine, it's WAY easier to install it on the engine with the engine out of the car.

I will be using the turbo in the future, but when I order an engine from car-part.com, it won't come with the turbo; just oil pump, water pump, timing belt, mounting brackets, short block, heads, valve covers, and oil pan.

I think that's about it. I'll probably replace a few seals and gaskets, such as the oil pan gasket, but I'm not going to worry about anything else untill I can get money saved up.

I did what you want - running turbo block as N/A. There is an oill and coolant line on the pass side head that needs to be blocked off and a water line off the water pump. Then just swap all the N/A manifold etc on top.

I highly doubt you'll find a turbo engine with everything to do the complete N/A to turbo swap. You can get the long block with manifold, injectors, maybe turbo, but the MAP sensor and intake tubing, plus myriad vacuum lines will be chopped and/or missing 99/100 times. You'll also need a crossmember for the turbo manifold.

Steve

douglas vincent wrote:Is your rig a turbo already? Cause I have an extra crank if you want to rebuild. Pretty sure the cranks are the same NA to Turbo.

This is something I have always wanted to verify. The parts manual lists separate part numbers for the turbo and NA cranks. I think the turbo crank may be counter balanced from the factory...

Matt Monson wrote:

douglas vincent wrote:Is your rig a turbo already? Cause I have an extra crank if you want to rebuild. Pretty sure the cranks are the same NA to Turbo.

This is something I have always wanted to verify. The parts manual lists separate part numbers for the turbo and NA cranks. I think the turbo crank may be counter balanced from the factory...

I can say that the stock ej22t crank does look like it has balancing done on it. There are holes on one side of the crank on the webbing. Not sure if the ej22 crank has this or not.

evolutionmovement wrote:I did what you want - running turbo block as N/A. There is an oill and coolant line on the pass side head that needs to be blocked off and a water line off the water pump. Then just swap all the N/A manifold etc on top.

I highly doubt you'll find a turbo engine with everything to do the complete N/A to turbo swap. You can get the long block with manifold, injectors, maybe turbo, but the MAP sensor and intake tubing, plus myriad vacuum lines will be chopped and/or missing 99/100 times. You'll also need a crossmember for the turbo manifold.

Steve

no that's completely alright, I'm going to use my current exhaust and crossmember; so I don't have to worry about exhaust fitment; my MAP sensor will work fine with the ECU I've got.

As for in the future when I go to turbocharge the engine, it's going to be when I have plenty of excess cash flow; then I'll proceed to do custom exhaust manifolds to clear the crossmember around behind the front passenger side halfshaft, aftermarket turbocharger with a standalone wastegate, and a standalone or piggyback ECU.

This project now is just to get me on a good base with a running engine.

well guess it's time for an update.

I was not able to secure the autoshop for it's services so that I could work on there; being that I have a gravel driveway, I must take my time/efforts over to another family house, rent an engine hoist, and get the job done there.

scuzzy,
I think you mis-understood Steve. You do not have a MAP sensor. You have a MAF sensor. The turbo uses BOTH a MAP and a MAF. He's talking about most turbo longblocks do not include that or the boost control solenoid...

oh no, I understand; MAF for measuring flow; MAP for measuring pressure.

all I'll need now (because I'm retaining my ECU) is the MAF sensor.

it's just like changing out the long block, everything else bolts right back up.

figured I'd close out this topic completly for those who search for it.

I'm currently running the EJ22T engine as NA, and have been since 11/7/05. I've put 4500 miles on it, I check my plugs on a regular basis.

ws that attach thThere's some coolant sensor connections on the wiring harness under the manifold that need to be moved if you want to do this swap.


Everything went smooth, except for a hangup or two. there was a steel plug in the back of the crankshaft that I had to drill out (that was several hours of fun) and of course doing it for the first time with zero help. it took me three days (including the problems I had)

Someone who's done it more than once, with help, can do it in a day or by themselves in the same ammount of time or shorter.

Currently I'm moving 120 miles east of here, to Nashville, due to a new job. There I'm going to trade out my arc welder for a mig welder (more expensive) and order some pre-bent mandrel 3" exhaust. Over time (a month or two) I will build and fit my own exhaust manifold, up pipe and turboback.

the reason for the custom build is so that I can clear the NA crossmember, which is designed without the turbo in mind (obviouslly).

the NA headers also won't mate to the block with the turbo crossmember installed, so if you're planning this all, it must be done at once.

The turbo headers (sans up-pipe) will not mate to the block without custom work with the NA crossmember installed.

That was the original idea, to use the turbo headers and build a new uppipe, but the output from the headers (collector, rather) run right into the crossmember.


My power steering pump went out yesterday, I installed a reman, that's the only failure I've had since the swap.

Be careful of the hoses that connect to the throttle body for coolant feed and return, if you bend them too much/kink them slightly, they'll rip open under pressure. I had this happen to me the day following the swap, the return that comes from the IAC that goes to the casting ontop of the block broke the hose right at the casting, and I had to pull the IAC to replace it.

One thing that's interesting, if you've inspected the differences of the turbo manifold and the Na manifold (other than the obvious extra outputs/inputs) is that the IAC has a bleed-back valve which prevents pressure from escaping the manifold back to before the turbocharger.

This valve doesn't fit in the NA head, so if you're planning to go to turbo later, you need to swap the turbo manifold back in - some others may have a good idea as to what you can do instead, but this is what came to mind for me.

I'm using my smaller injectors from the NA engine in my NA running Ej22T, even with those it runs rich at idle for a few minutes before the ECU subtracts about 15% fuel.


There is a fuel difference, with the old engine I saw a typical 22-23mpg in the city and upwards of 26 on the highway.

with this setup I see 19-20mpg in the city, and about 25 on the highway.


All in all, I'm glad I did it. I didn't rebuild the engine before I put it in, but I did pull the oil pump, coolant pump, timing belt, tensioner - checked the tensioner, checked the belt (both were good) resealed the coolant pump to the block, replaced the front crank seal (part of the oil pump)

disassemble the oil pump by removing the rear plate that's attached to the casting with screws, most likely your's will be backing out or already backed out. three of mine were and the engine had 81k on it.

locktite does the job just fine, make sure they're clean before you apply it though.

Inspect the pump gear while the plate is off, make sure there doesn't look like anything went through it that shouldn't have (shavings, etc)


If your engine was sitting for days/months/years before you got to it, take a can of white lithium grease to it. rear cam seals, cam journals, everything that has metal to metal contact. I pulled the oil pan and sprayed the crank journals the best I could - obviouslly it's best to disassemble the block and slap everything down with assembly lube to be safe, but I did the best I could.

startup for the first time was the most horrible noise I've ever heard coming from an engine, it was essentially dry, and it didn't like it, but so far so good.

sounded exactly like roaring and it could have been worse if it wasn't for the lithium grease, best I could tell is that it came from the cams, it took a minute or two for oil to get to them, but as soon as it did, the noise stopped.

HLA's were clacking like crazy, and did for about five miles. after that, it went away, and she sounded then just like she sounds today.

no shavings in the oil pan, I'm going to change the oil again tomorrow if it's good out and see if there are any shavings in the pan, but I doubt it.


anyway, that's all for now.

For those doing something like this. Crank the engine over without starting to build oil pressure. Helps loads.

That is all. Good write up of your hiccups!