legacycentral bbs

What is it with people and "cheap" performance.

True "performance" parts are not cheap.

Especially for our cars.

Sure, why not put on a fart can muffler, hack the intake and exhaust and some go fast stickers and call it quits.

I would rather save up real money for ECM or a turbo or bigger exhaust. Yes it will cost me a lot more, but the return on it will be higher also.

Unlike some people, reliabilty is something I look for.

So for those like VRG3 who work on the ECU and to everyone working on that project- my hat's off to you. You are truly performance engineers.
Why go cheap when you can make it great and reliable.

Now excuse me while I go put more stickers on my car.

It's all about calculated risk, opportunity, availability, and what parts you have lying around to replace something if it breaks.

I COULD run around at 16psi all day long and surely blow the motor in a few months. But instead, I'm running wastegate (which, in reality, isn't much more than stock power, and is well within the realm of stock control), and haven't really had any issues.

And to do it the best? No one has that kind of money. A gearbox that "probably" wouldn't break, would cost you in the realm of $10,000, without a center or rear diff to match.

You end up paying for performance one way or another anyway, might was well do it the right way.

You can get performance done "right" without spending a packet. Doing the work yourself, fabricating your own parts, and knowing the limiting factors. When there are no parts to speak of for a given application, you must improvise and fabricate your own.

I've found that the things done "right" on my car, have been less reliable than the things that most wouldn't consider as being done "right". I might not see as huge gains as I COULD if I did things differently and more expensively, but I've been running my setup for 20,000 miles now, and haven't had any major problems that wouldn't have happened anyway (IAC failure, blown struts, etc).

Of course, while I AM ghetto, I'm fairly calculated, and I've got a crew of highly capable advisors to assist me in decision making, and implication. There are more ghetto setups out there than mine, and I'm sure this topic isn't limited solely to our corner of the automotive modification world.

I've had good times working on my legacy but I've also had frustrating, expensive and time consuming things happen as well. I've always thought that if you have the dough to dump a ton into modding your old legacy why not get a STI or a new turbo leg, modding those must be a bit simpler. I guess if you're independently wealthy and have a lot of free time then it's cool. Everyone needs a hobby. If racing is yours then more power to you. For me, I just can't spend a lot of money and time on my cars if I want to do anything else, like play music. If I had a shit ton of money I would mod the hell out of my legs just to see what they could do but I don't and that's my loss I guess. But if you do then go for it. Hell, if I had a garage it would even be a slightly different story . But the folks like Doug and Vikash that come up with innovations and are just hardcore mechanics impress the hell out of me.

My engine is stock from the snorkus to the exhaust tips.

IMO doing half an engine is just a different type of ghetto. Sticking on a giant exhaust, a big turbo, and upping the fuel pressure is along the same lines as strapping on an intake and a fartcan. Maybe im just jealous.

Half an engine?

Upping the fuel pressure?

The difference is that at least you get something when you mod a turbo charged car. Adding an exhaust to an NA doesn't do a whole lot. Adding one to a turbo can possibly preserve the turbo from what I was told, not to mention remove restrictions to flow. This discussion is turning into a flashback.

All this has to do with your own personal gaol for your car. I love my 91 ej22t and have major plans for it. This will happen over a long time because I am not a high dollar man. I would say just set goals for your car and stick to them. One day you could be proud of what you have done.

creel wrote: I've always thought that if you have the dough to dump a ton into modding your old legacy why not get a STI or a new turbo leg .

Bingo.

We deal with people all F'ing day long, who dont wanna drop the cash. Like I can just wave a magic wand, and give you 400hp for 50 bucks. HA!

You guys gotta awnser some of the phone calls I get. Oh, Oh, and my favorite are the cheap ass people who cant install the stuff themselves, but dont want to pay for it either. Like how doctors will work for you for free right?

Or, "how much horsepower will a BOV add?"

We have awsome customers too. The people who stop at nothing for the good stuff. They might have to wait a bit to save up the dough, but its worth it for the good shit. It always fits, is reliable, and usually ends up costing less for the install anyway.

Modding an STi IS easier. I've had my hand in a few several-hundred-whp-WRX/STi's, and they are infinitely easier than our cars... sometimes.

Sometimes, with our cars, things just click. I replaced all 4 struts today, in 4 hours, without breaking a single bolt.

Other times, it takes you 20 minutes to get to a hose clamp.

When I did my suspension, the rear took two days, and the front took two hours.

I kind of planned on having some place like aerosim do a WRX driveline swap. I figure, buy an old Impreza shell, have them do the driveline suspension, dash, seats, brakes, and everything for $6500 parts and labor, and have a sexy, sleeper GC WRX for way less than the cost buying a new one. I kind of want to do it to my car someday.

Just driving faster is the answer to every question, heh. "If you can't go fast on 90hp, 900 won't help you". I've owned/driven some pretty fast things, and nothing is more gratifying than working on your own ability. I now know horsepower is not the road to happiness for me .

My old EA81s were low powered, but more fun than a lot of fast cars. Give me a mint '84 hardtop 5MT over any recent German car, especially new Mercedes-Benzes [yawn].

I'm on the five year plan for my restoration/AWD/turbo conversion, but when it's done the car will be better than new if they even built such a thing in the first place. It may take forever, but I don't see the sense if it's not reliable or if the improvements are imbalanced (like all engine, but beat chassis).

Steve

I love my 91 ej22t and have major plans for it.

this seems like the only reason to drop serious coin on your vintage subaru to me.

Like I can just wave a magic wand, and give you 400hp for 50 bucks. HA!

DAMNIT!

I figure, buy an old Impreza shell, have them do the driveline suspension, dash, seats, brakes, and everything for $6500 parts and labor, and have a sexy, sleeper GC WRX for way less than the cost buying a new one.

trouble is it takes many many man hours and then you have an aged chassis that has been taken apart and reassembled by whats probably an amateur mech. All the bushings, the wheel bearings, the steering rack, etc etc etc are old and although not broken, they're not as sharp as fresh stuff.

Just driving faster is the answer to every question, heh. "If you can't go fast on 90hp, 900 won't help you". I've owned/driven some pretty fast things, and nothing is more gratifying than working on your own ability. I now know horsepower is not the road to happiness for me Very Happy .

Damn miata owner. I agree though. I have spent twice more on tires than i have on any other car related thing, second only to purchasing vehicles. Nothing is more satisfying than going breakneck speed in total comfort and control. IMO this is why everyone lusts after horspower- any moron can stab at the throttle and have 2 pedals to control it.

I'd say the reason that so many BC/BJ/BF owners are always asking about cheap performance upgrades is obvious. We're all poor.

A lot of the owners here are young too. They either got the car from their parents or else because it was cheap. They don't have a bunch of money to drop on serious mods.

Hell, if we were oozing money from our asses, like so many WRX owners, and stuff, guys would just drop the coin for a ECU-TechIII ($2k-$3K) engine management for full stand alone capabilities. But instead most are either running no engine management or some cheap type like E-manage, Perfect Power, ect..

I have yet to see anyone buy an SS and then replace every suspension part, build the engine up, throw a $5-10k dollar tranny in, ect.. WRX guys do this all the time though. They'll spend 25k on the car new and then throw their warranty in the shitter and dump another $25k on mods. If you have the money to do that, then most aren't going to do it to an 11+ year old car.

It's a crappy situation to be in too. Look at me. I'm at a point where I can't even take advantage of my power mods I do have because I don't have the money for engine management, injectors ect.. The town I live in hurts me too, I'd have to drive to a bigger city just to get a FMIC plumbed in.

If I did hit the lottery or something I would actually do a full build up on my SS though, just because I love her so.


When it does come to cheap modding, I'd say I'm king though.

legacy92ej22t wrote:I have yet to see anyone buy an SS and then replace every suspension part, build the engine up, throw a $5-10k dollar tranny in, ect..

Can't saying I'm dumping 5-10k in the tranny, but I'll have replaced every suspension component by the time I'm done, and I'm building the motor....albeit to no way near the level of the WRX guys.


Other thing to add, the Legacy peeps tend to be a little more level headed and have some common sense over the WRX guys that just want to do all this crazy shit. It's fun beatin a WRX that spent all this money, and you've done you're homework, figured out a few choice modifications, and did the work yourself. It makes it that much more rewarding.

legacy92ej22t wrote:I have yet to see anyone buy an SS and then replace every suspension part,

Only wear-item suspension parts that have not been replaced with new stuff on my car are lateral link bushings, steering rack, and the front swaybar. They are all in good shape. But then again, i don't have an SS.

Legacy777 wrote:

legacy92ej22t wrote:I have yet to see anyone buy an SS and then replace every suspension part, build the engine up, throw a $5-10k dollar tranny in, ect..

Can't saying I'm dumping 5-10k in the tranny, but I'll have replaced every suspension component by the time I'm done, and I'm building the motor....albeit to no way near the level of the WRX guys.

My point was that the wrx guys will buy a brand new car and them replace every suspension component right down to aluminum control arms all in one shot. Not that they do the lateral links one year, then the struts the next, ect... which is more like what we would do.

Other thing to add, the Legacy peeps tend to be a little more level headed and have some common sense over the WRX guys that just want to do all this crazy shit. It's fun beatin a WRX that spent all this money, and you've done you're homework, figured out a few choice modifications, and did the work yourself. It makes it that much more rewarding.

Oh, I agree 110%. I just mean that most of us aren't in a position to do a full build up all in one shot. I'd love to if I ever get the money though.

scottzg wrote:

legacy92ej22t wrote:I have yet to see anyone buy an SS and then replace every suspension part,

Only wear-item suspension parts that have not been replaced with new stuff on my car are lateral link bushings, steering rack, and the front swaybar. They are all in good shape. But then again, i don't have an SS.

So that means that your NA can almost perform to stock SS standards now?

I love my scoob because it's a rat and it's fast. Fixing it is cheap, so I don't really care if it breaks. Taht beeing said, it get the best milage out of all my cars and I've only put abuot $200 into the car including buying it. All the turbo parts were spares taht I had sitting around and a few trips to the hardware store.

Cheap performacne is fun

Though expensive performacne is too, that's what the Jag and the Supra are for.... but I think I have more fun in the Subaru that I've got $200 into than the Supra that I've got $20k into.

I love my Legacy cause it seems to be invisible to cops. I mean, 3 nights ago I was out at 11:30 and due to my license restriction I'm not supposed to be out at the time of night. I was stopped at a stop light and a cop pulled out turning left. He drove right past me real slow like and didn't even wave me down. Now that's awesomeness for yea. However, if I had been in an SVX, I think I would have been out of luck.

Add to that: My car will outlast me. It will run forever.

Yeah, Legacies are on the DL

I'm surprised I didn't get nailed this weekend coming back from Jacksonville. I was doing 80 in a 65 when I came over a slight crest to see a fuzz on the other side. I just tapped the brakes ever-so-slightly enough to turn the cruise off, and did NOT make eye contact with him. He didn't even move. Probably looking for bigger fish than me anyway.