legacycentral bbs

anyone used a phantom grip lsd unit on their front diff? open diff is getting a little old on the rallyx course. sick of losing the few 1/10ths every couple corners! i probably loose a second each run thanks to the opn diff. btw my car is a 90 fwd 5spd sedan.
greg

so apparently no one has ever used or heard of one of these being used in the front diff of a subaru?

oh well i gave it a week

greg

Cant you ask your fellow competitors what they use diff wise. Will a 4wd legacy rear or front diff fit? Have a look here as well if you want to get a quality diff, dunno if they do one fr the legacy but they do cover a LOT of cars and keep any designs for one offs www.quaife.co.uk I assure you they ARE quality.

most vw guys use quaife or weld. most subaru guys are awd so its not as important if you have a open diff up front. a couple people use phantom grip but they are mopar and honda guys and i wanted subaru user feedback. specifically in a fwd application. especially its efffect on the front diff itself. phantom grip has a piece for my car (since all BC, BF, GC chassis use the same front diff.) its about 350. which is alot less than a quaife, kaaz, or cusco. they are all around 1,000. i know of one person who used a phantom grip in a turbo 2.5 rs. but he didnt own the car just rallied it for Knight racing in 2001. liked it but he didnt have to pay for parts so he doesnt know about the damage to front diff if any.
greg

How is the phantom setup? Does it use plates/clutches?

The quaife would be the most streetable LSD IMO.....however I have heard the Kaaz unit can handle more power.......

When a quiafe goes bad, it will destroy itself; this is inherent in its design.

A clutch type (like the kaaz) is the best option.

I haven't heard of the phantom grip being used, but it seems to be a VERY versitile design. Maybe you'll try it for us? Maybe you should call the company and get their opinion?

What I don't understand is how the Phantom Grip can be reliable.

If I correctly recall, the Phantom Grip is a little springloaded ... uh ... thingie ... that presses against the spider gears and differential housing when it's torqued by a speed difference between the two sides. So doesn't that put load/wear on surfaces that weren't meant for it?

But it apparently does work reliably; people use it for racing a lot. Sport Compact Car put it in their Neon, I think, and maybe the Silvia too (I can't remember). A bunch of SCCA guys use it too.

Just read a november 2003 issue of sport compact car. There is a wrx in there that uses the phantom grip. Pretty much a fully customized big $$ wrx, it did mention specifically that it used a phantom grip. My guess is that after spending so much money on the car, and using a phantom, that it must have some kind of good reputation.

MK

vrg3 that is exactly what i was looking for info about wear where wear wanst intended. it is a unit that goes into the stock open diff and puts a load on the spider gears. it is a coompromise. not as good as true LSD but better than welded. it apparently gives a similar feel as a clutch type. it is almost invisible in casual driving from what i have been told. i think it would be ideal in a rally type situation because of the low level of grip that i have. thanks for the discussion.
greg

Hang on a moment, Ive heard off these before and what I heard sounded like the units complete rubbish not to mention the reviewers saying that it was the same, aint it just like a fake LSD that doesnt actaully WORK as an LSD? Correct me if Im wrong here but if its the one Im thinking off, dont bother.
The Quaife unit is hard as nails by the way and while yes if it ever did break up it would indeed wreck the complete unit I have every confidence that a company with a world wide reputation like theirs would replace the unit if it was a materials failure, wouldnt have thought theyd be at all easy to actaully break or wear out though.

I have never heard a bad thing about Phantom Grip units. People do say they prefer other much more expensive units, but that's about it.

of course i would prefer a much more expensive unit too. but cant afford one because its much more expensive. like i said du to the extreme level of low grip in rally the phantom grip would probably work ok and would be leaps and bounds above an open peglegging diff. just wanted to hear from some subaru owners.

thanks,
greg

this is hearsay but from what I know, phantom grips use shims in the spider gears of the diff causing a slight bind, the more shims you use the more bind. it does weaken the carriers from what I have heard. I heard all this from a guy who had one of these in his rabbit. quaifes are much better than kaaz or any other type of clutch pack lsd. they are much stronger too. Is your car strictly rallyx? maybe consider welding the diffs...lol. anything but a phantom grip is big $.

Didnt we have this discussion before? Maybe it was on Nasioc. In short phantom grips are CRAP.

They have very little contact on a surface that was NEVER MADE to wear down. They put force on the differential that would never exist normally. If you where to drive in a completly straight line for the life of the car the Phantom Grip would still destroy the differential.

If you know how a differential works, imagine putting a huge spring in between the gears so they are rubbing against the spring face and outer surface. This is where the grip comes from

YA, the grinding metal noise in turns always steered me away from the Phantom Grip. I really cant beleive it actually works anyway, and if it does, its at the cost of grinding down your spider gears. Maybe it works a little in the mud, but no way on dry pavement.

On the other hand, Ive had no complaints from the ones I've installed, and Volkswagen did a similar setup from the factory with their spring loaded drive flanges.