legacycentral bbs

i got my 94 ss the otherday and it had the stock wheels on it and a variety of missmatced lugnuts. i put my gold 98 rs 5 spokes on with a set of suby lug nuts i had off a totaled wrx. everything went on fine and i turged the nuts to 85 flbs. about 20 miles later the steering felt sloppy and the wheel was jumping . i got out and cheked the nts and at least 2 on every wheel where real loose and the rest where finger tight. i re torqued and a few miles later the same thing. are the seats on the rims where the lug nut sits different between the 2 wheels?? what the f@!#. i made them REAL tight and the seem ok now but ive only gone like 50 miles. the nuts are off an 02 and i always torque my nuts so i dont think they are streched out.

I think your hubs may be loose. When you tighten the wheels and jack the car back up, do the wheels have any lateral movement? (ie, if you kick them, does the wheel shake in place)

Are they Aluminum lugs, or OEM?

Are you lubing the threads or anything like that?

BAC5.2 wrote:Are they Aluminum lugs, or OEM?

Are you lubing the threads or anything like that?

I lube my threads and they don't back off (I also tighten the shit out of them). Then again, I'm lubing them with WD-40

Are you pulling the studs out? I had to replace one once

I ignore the torque specs and never have a problem when tightening 100+. Had the same problem to a lesser degree at 85.

Steve

That's crazy! I've been torquing to 72ft-lbs for years on all my Subarus. After 2 dozen rallycrosses where I beat the crap out of my wheels, and after probably 300 wheel changes, I've never had a lug nut "come loose".

Wow... that's disturbing when you add it up. That = 1500 lug nuts torqued.

Yeah, there may be lube on the threads, which I think is dangerous. Swish the nuts around in some alcohol and clean the studs off with brake cleaner.

vrg3 wrote:Yeah, there may be lube on the threads, which I think is dangerous. Swish the nuts around in some alcohol and clean the studs off with brake cleaner.

Good idea but.... when it rains, he's screwed. Those bolts will rust to the studs and you'll NEVER get them off. Lubing them is okay imo as long as your wheels aren't moving laterally and you torque them to proper specs. I've never had lugs backing off on me using lube.

Manarius, I think I have a loose hub, cause my drivers wheel moves in and out all directions when lifted. the lugs are tight...
So to tighten hub, do you tighten the axle-nut?
I've been driving like this for about 2000mi, so now I have a light deep oompf noise every once in a while when coasting at walking speed. I suspect this might be the bearing now...
Could the hub been damaged as well??

Manarius wrote:

vrg3 wrote:Yeah, there may be lube on the threads, which I think is dangerous. Swish the nuts around in some alcohol and clean the studs off with brake cleaner.

Good idea but.... when it rains, he's screwed. Those bolts will rust to the studs and you'll NEVER get them off. Lubing them is okay imo as long as your wheels aren't moving laterally and you torque them to proper specs. I've never had lugs backing off on me using lube.

Well, I generally don't use lube and rust is not a problem for me. But then again... maybe rusting is a lot worse up in NY where qc835 is.

But, I agree that I've used WD40 before and still not had any nuts back off.

Never lubed lugs, or heard of having to lube them, and I've also never had a problem with rusting... And yes, it rains in Canada!

The lugs don't rust together if you a) use either hubcaps or closed-end nuts, b) rotate your tires a couple times a year, and c) make sure the threads are clean and dry every time you put them together.

I spent four winters driving my Subarus in Ithaca, NY (a very very salty place in the cold part of the year -- they have to do something with those salt mines under Cayuga Lake) and have never had a lug nut not come loose when I wanted it to.

What are "proper specs" for torque on a lubricated lug nut?

I have seen lubed lugs back off. In one case, it was antiseize and the kid had actually used a torque wrench set to the specified dry torque. In the other, it was WD-40 and he said he intentionally torqued them as hard as he could.

i used a little bit of antiseize and torqued to 80 ft lbs. they kept backing off but i then tightened them as tight as i could with a breaker bar and now they seem ok. i know i could of stretched the threads but they seem to be staying tight. how would a loose hub cause your lugs to back off or are you saying that is the noise i hear? because the noise goes away when they are tight

I'd clean the studs with brake cleaner and swish the lugs in a solvent like Vikash suggested. I don't have hubcaps and I don't have closed-end nuts and don't have trouble with rust, granted my wheels tend to come on and off a fair bit for some reason or another.

Just get some closed end lugs and don't worry about rust. that's what I did, although my wheels tend to come of a few times a year anyway

any clue on my dilemma?

gc835 wrote:i used a little bit of antiseize and torqued to 80 ft lbs. they kept backing off but i then tightened them as tight as i could with a breaker bar and now they seem ok. i know i could of stretched the threads but they seem to be staying tight. how would a loose hub cause your lugs to back off or are you saying that is the noise i hear? because the noise goes away when they are tight

You are putting a lot more tension in those studs than they are supposed to have.

I'd guess that 80ftlbs lubed makes as much tension as 160ftlbs unlubed. And you're saying that wasn't enough so you went way over that.

I don't actually know the limits and all, but it just seems like you're on the wrong track.

Busdriver - Unfortunately, I think you're going to need to replace the wheel bearing. The axle nut doesn't secure the bearing, so tightening it wouldn't resolve the play you've got.

It may actually be easier to just swap the entire hub.

gc835 - Yeah, what Sam said. Antiseize increases clamping for any given torque; the usual recommendation when you use antiseize is to maintain roughly the same tension by reducing the applied torque by about 20%.Moreover, your 80 ft-lbs is higher than the dry torque spec already.

Why don't you just do it the right way? Even if they seem okay now, it could suck to find that your wheel won't go back on when you're putting a spare on at the side of the road.

If you're committed to the idea of using lube and overtorquing, then carry some spare lug studs and lug nuts in the glove box at the very least.

i dont have a rust problem i just have always used antiseize. dont know why. i am just wondering why they are backing off. even with the antiseize 80 ftlbs should keep um tight

gc835 wrote:even with the antiseize 80 ftlbs should keep um tight

What basis do you have to say that though?

vrg3 Thank you,

I'm used to busses and there the front axle nut is used to adjust the bearing...

anybody have a hub with clean bearing?

Busdriver wrote:vrg3 Thank you,

I'm used to busses and there the front axle nut is used to adjust the bearing...

anybody have a hub with clean bearing?

It's most likely a front wheel bearing. They're easy to do..just take it apart and press the new bearing into the hub.

I have a rear wheel bearing going out...doing rears is a bitch.

85 ft/lbs?

The spec is 65-72 ft/lbs. Overtorqueing is bad. And 100+ ft/lbs is crazy.

What I would suggest is buying new lugs for all the nuts that you know are loose, and replacing them. You're looking at like 15 bucks per corner.