legacycentral bbs

This deserves a new thread

Here's the old thread viewtopic.php?t=2332

Well i took another go at it tonight.

Here's the run down.

This time I just ran the car up on the ramps so it wasn't so high. I then dropped the exhaust manifolds, and disassembled it where it connects to the mid-pipe. So exhaust was completely out of the way.

I then removed the easy bolts on the mounts. Then jacked up the engine about 1/2-1" (note: I removed the intake tube, windshield washer bottle, and un bolted the pitch mount.) I then removed the back bolts.....

It took about an hour to get everything unbolted.

Now it was time to get everything back together. Well i got the mounts bolted up to the engine, and of course the engine didn't want to sit back in properly. It was too far forward. I tried loosening the tranny mount. That actually didn't work, and only made it worse. I monky'd around with it for a while. I tried jacking up the tranny too....no luck. What seemed to help was letting the engine down from the jack. Then I wiggled the car around. It set the tranny mount down properly, and did seem to help the motor mount get closer. Jacked the engine up again, and set it back down again. Well with a little coaxing, it finally dropped in. I bolted everything back in except the exhaust manifold. I want to de-gut the cat, but that joint after the header pipe is pretty much rusted on there. So I either have to cut the studs off, then drill them out on the other side and put new hardware on.....or just leave it alone......we'll see how ambitious I am tomorrow.

here's pics
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... inemounts/

Nice! It should be really great to see how your engine feels after this. I know my engine's aching for new mounts.

So you didn't try any urethane on the motor mounts? I was thinking of maybe cutting some of the stock rubber out and replacing it with urethane casting compound when I do mine.

nope.....I put sti mounts in. MUCH HARDER then any urathane.

Oh. Nice. :)

I thought STi mounts were the same as WRX mounts, and that only Group N mounts were actually harder. Or am I thinking of strut tops?

You say STi mounts are harder than any urethane -- I thought they were polyurethane.

I asked that question too. There is no difference between "sti" mounts and "group N" mounts.

Just to give you some background on my dillemas when getting these. I ordered some from a vendor, he sent me the old legacy rubber mounts, and said they were the same. Well the physically look the same, and actually have the same part number on the rubber portion (ie same mold) but there is no way they are the same mounts. The rubber is MUCH stiffer. There is no comparing them. Plus the backing plate is different, especially compared to my old ones.

Ah, gotcha.

I think I'm gonna try cutting/drilling out part of my almost-new stock Impreza 2.5RS mounts' rubber and pouring urethane in. A poor man's group N mount. :)

Just some updates,

I drove the car some yesterday, and I must say I'm very impressed! The hesitation I had when I stomped on the gas from a dead stop is pretty much gone. It probably would be better if I reset the ECU.

The only explanation I can give is there was a resonance there that the knock sensor picked up and caused issues.

As for drilling out the stock mounts and filling with urethane in there. Just make sure it's stiffer then what I used.......the 3m stuff seems to be hardening a little better, but so far it's anything but stiff.

Awesome! Yeah, the only explanation I can think of is perceived knock by the ECU too.

I think I'll go with the really hard 90A shore hardness casting compound when I drill and refill. People tell me it's too hard to use in bushings/mounts, but since I'll be leaving some stock rubber there too it should be okay.

Give your 3M stuff some more time... hopefully it's the right stuff and it'll harden nicely.

Woohoo!

So Josh, how did you end up getting to the back bolts? From the top like I did, or did you find another way?

I agree with the good feel. Although I cannot completely get rid of my hesitation (get this, my XT is doing it too, seems to be a Subaru thing ), the mounts definitely did help, because I agree that the knock sensor is probably getting false feedback from excessive engine movement...

Tell me something josh, before you changed mounts, did the car shift incredibly harder into second gear than any other gears? If so how does it feel now? Also does the engine move a lot less now when it's revved?

THAWA wrote:Tell me something josh, before you changed mounts, did the car shift incredibly harder into second gear than any other gears?

Are you talking about 5-speeds? Josh has an automatic.

2nd gear's synchro is typically the first to go on any car because of people shifting into it in anticipation of a corner, not bothering to notice that they're going 40mph at the time, so the synchro has to work overtime. The worn synchronizer makes it harder to shift into that gear.

Naa I'm talkin auto, mine shifts hella hard and I'm wondering if the mounts could be part of the problem.

Very possible. The Toyota Sienna van I drive at work had a terrible motor mount, so bad that when you got on it, the driver's side would lift up higher than the passenger, simply because the torque would pull the mount apart!!! It also shifted VERY rough into 2nd.

It has been replaced since and both those problems have disappeared...

I got the back bolts I think from the top side. The passenger side was definitely from the top, and I'm pretty sure I did the driver's side from the top as well.


My 1-2 shift is pretty crisp. I wouldn't say it's harsh, but it may be to other people. I do however have a shift kit installed on my valve body though. The shifting feels the same, or from what i can tell, it feels the same.

Yes the engine moves A LOT LESS now. Before I could move the engine around just by holding onto the exhaust manifolds. Now I can't do that. Even when revving the engine, it barely moves.

I definitely think this is a must have for the older cars. The only downside I have seen is a little extra vibration, mainly at idle.

Lots more vibration when coasting down speed in gear with a stick shift.

vrg3 wrote:2nd gear's synchro is typically the first to go on any car because of people shifting into it in anticipation of a corner, not bothering to notice that they're going 40mph at the time, so the synchro has to work overtime.

Never thought of it that way. I do know some people that do that. I always put it in neutral and coast to the turn and then put it in 2nd half way through my turn and let out the clutch.

Definitely some extra vibration in the dash with my STi motor mounts. Some of it has seemed to go away once they were broken in. Now I can get the car to rotate slightly when i rev the engine and the engine barely moves at all!

josh could you tell me a little more about the shift kit on your auto. my 95 wagon shifts horribly i always chalked it up to nearly 1/4 million miles.

greg

This is the shift kit I have http://www.txchange.com/sk.htm#Import

SK® RE4R01A

Nissan RE4R01A, RL4R01A Mazda R4AX-EL, Subaru 4 speed ECAT, Nissan – Infinity – Truck - SUV V8 RE4R03A, Isuzu Diesel JR403

1988up 4 speed with or without lockup
Corrects/Prevents/Reduces:
Planetary burnup; 3rd clutch failure; forward clutch burnup Soft 1-2 shift; 2-3 cutloose; Band burnout and low lube flow causing overheating and total burnup



The kit is not a fix all for an old tranny. Main improvement for me was the 1-2 shift. Other then that, I can't say it improved shifting dramatically.

If you got that many miles, a shift kit is not going to do anything marvelous. The tranny most likely needs to be rebuilt. I know mine could use a rebuild.

Are you guys talking about people wearing the synchros from not heel and toe downshifting? I never rely on just the sync's. With me, though, it was 3rd gear that went first.

Steve

evolutionmovement wrote:Are you guys talking about people wearing the synchros from not heel and toe downshifting?

Or otherwise matching speeds...

Shifting properly without rev matching isn't too bad; the synchros are there for a reason after all. But shifting properly means only shifting into a gear appropriate for the current engine and road speed.

I can't seem to get the hang of heel-and-toeing on my car. My foot is just shaped weird for the pedal arrangement.

I don't know how big your feet are (I wear a 10 1/5 to 11 shoe), but I got some alloy OBX pedal covers about 7 years ago and it made all the difference as you can position them however you want in relation to one another and they're larger anyway. I use the right side of my right foot for the gas and the left side for the brake. I've even got it so that I can go from left foot braking to right foot heel and toe without any change in brake modulation. Everyone thinks I'm a genius with how smooth I can drive (but of course they have no clue either way, so...). I think I paid 20 bucks, but I don't know what they charge for these things with all the ricers getting them.

Steve

Way cool. I heard good things about pedal covers from a company called "Big Foot" I think. Probably a similar product. I wear anywhere from 10.5 to 12, depending on the shoe. My feet are really wide, which ought to help, but I'm just clumsy, I think. I've been planning on checking out these pedal covers ever since I got my first stickshift Subaru but haven't gotten around to it. I just really let go of the brake, double-clutch downshift, and get back on the brake.

evolutionmovement wrote:I use the right side of my right foot for the gas and the left side for the brake.

This is exactly what I do. I guess it's not really heel-and-toe then though ...

I was forced to learn how to double-clutch and rev-match and all that fancy stuff when I had the crap syn gear oil in my tranny, as any attempts at gear engagement relying solely on the synchro would simply cause a grind.

Now I do it coz it's fun , but it actually hurts my mileage a bit though... Makes sense, poppin the gas for rev-matching does accelerate the engine, simple physics there

And guys, be happy. Legacies are EASY to do it on; perfect pedal placement IMO. The XT is much harder

You can actually notice the effect on fuel economy? That surprises me. The effort it takes to rev an unloaded engine up is fairly small compared to almost any actual driving.

I taught myself to rev match when I got my old Impreza. Its 2nd gear synchro was completely shot. The only way to get into 2nd was to match speeds.

Then one day I changed the gear oil and put in some 80W90, and in the winter you simply couldn't use 2nd gear, no matter how hard you tried, until the transmission got warm. That sucked.

The 1-2 shift gets harder as the front band is out of adjustment. So the older/worse shape the transmission the harder the shift!

What happens is that normally the belt is gradually applied then full force holds it in place. As it gets looser the belt starts to tighten against nothing and suddenly snaps into place.

The adjustment itself is a simple turn of a stud. Getting to the stud is about the hardest job to do (similar to replacing the purge valve). DONT loosen it, I had a transmission ruined that way. The band came off the end and resulted in only 1st and 3rd gear.

Dont tighten it too much either, you'll have permanent second gear and the transmission binds up if you try to use reverse. Try a full turn to start, then 1/4 turns afterwards. Getting buddy to hold the flat part of the stud still from the top while you are on the bottom loosening it helps.