legacycentral bbs

I'd like to discuss the different options for transmissions for the SS 5mt.

1st, have any of you swapped to a 4.11 manual setup? Blackbart has a 4.11 setup but I don't know anything about them. Will they work with the SS's hydraulic setup or are they the cable style?

Instead of swapping the rear diff to a 4.11 is it possible to just swap the center diff and stay 3.9?

Also, would the WRX flywheel and clutch setup I have work with the 4.11 setup?

Any info would be great.

2nd, will wrx gear sets work in the SS 5mt? Could I get an oem rex gear set off someone and just use them to rebuild my tranny?

3rd, does anyone know if oem SS 5mt gear sets can be bought anywhere?

TIA.

I'm assuming when you're talking about 4.11 setup, you're referring to a n/a legacy tranny or possibly a n/a RS tranny.

Regardless, they are both push style clutches. You can have a hydraulic push style clutch. The only thing you could use from the SS would be the clutch master cylinder.

No there's nothing you can swap in the center diff to keep a 3.90 rear end. You could swap the front pinion and drive shaft to keep the 3.900 setup.

No the WRX (pull style) clutch & flywheel will not work on push style 4.111 setup.

No, I don't think you can swap WRX gear sets onto the SS.

You probably won't find new gear sets. You're best bet is to find one used.

I was talking to BAC and the guys at gearboxtech.com about this a bit.

I don't think WRX gears will fit in an SS case without some significant modifications. At least, I know for a fact that the synchro'd PPG ones won't fit. If you go all dog, then it does fit.

I found that the most affordable option if you want some sort of upgrade is just to get a blown up WRX transmission put your choice of aftermarket gears in. Gearboxtech.com has all of the above sitting on a shelf waiting for you or I to finally man up and get some .

The center diff would have to match the rear diff - either both from your SS or both from a WRX.

Can't help with most of the other questions. Phil will jump in here any sec

Obviously a yields a better acceleration factor, as well as other advantages. Mine feels completely different after this change. Also, the lsd makes it even better.
What you can do, is swap the ring and pinion in your rear end, to make it 4.11 to match the tranny. I doubt you'll be driving like a newb, so as to hurt the tranny. These are plenty strong, even on the na's.

Unfortunately, a WRX gearset will not drop in .

Your best bet might just be finding a good condition WRX and using the center diff from your tranny in it. That will allow you to keep your stock rear diff.

Finding a non-blown WRX tranny for under $800 is difficult though.

Buying a blown WRX tranny isn't a horrible idea, but you may have to replace things like the front ring and pinion shaft, or some misc. bearings etc. Then you have to toss gears into the mix, and it gets expensive.

Hey Matt,

I don't have any clue what it would be to buy a blown wrx tranny and then a gearset, but would it be feasable to get an RA gearset from a japanese import place? Would the price be similar?

Also, the RS tranny is what we put into my brother's 92 SS. The flywheel and clutch needed to be RS stuff as did the clutch slave cylinder.

The 4.111 tranny sure makes the car quicker, but honestly, I may be all alone on this, but I dont' like how it made the car feel. I like its quickness, but I actually liked the feel of my car better. I like the feel of the 'off boost to on boost' transition better in my car than his car. Its more noticable and defined. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I think of it.

-Ryan

Josh- Yeah, I think it was an NA.

I was just at W&L and they said I can get the 2nd gear and main shaft for about $575. Whew, not cheap.

Sam- I'd love to have Andrew build me a tranny but I have no where near the coinage that that would require. I need a cheap fix or none at all.

Phil-Yeah, money is the big factor here. If not, I'd buy the used PPG dogbox (1-2,3-4)I found on nabisco. It only has 7k miles on it and he want $3500.

Ryan- That makes total sense to me.

The RA gear sets are very expensive and out of my price range. I was figuring I could probably get an oem wrx gear set for cheap from someone who had already upgraded and had them laying around.

I'm shying away from the 4.11 idea now. I just bought my SPec clutch and ACT flywheel. If I can't at least use them then it pretty much unfeesable for me.

has anyone heard of cryogenically treating a gear set? should help at least a little bit. would cost what, like $100?

I'm getting everything cryo treated when I eventually get a chance to build my box. I wish there was some test comparing strengths between treated and untreated.

I've seen threads over on nabisco regarding getting the gears cryo-treated.

I'm unsure of how much they will benefit. Rotors definitely show a big benefit due to the type of material they are.

I don't know the quality of metal/material the gears are, so it's hard to say whether cryo-treating them will do anything.

I've heard of engines and transmissions being done by racing teams, but I don't know how much of an improvement it is. All the positive reports I've read were in articles about cryotreating so they may be biased.

Steve

I don't know how much it would really help...

PPG gears are machined from Billet steel, then heat treated.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the actual process by which they do this, and I don't know enough about cryotreating to make any significant insight.

I don't think it would really help much, considering the strength seen in PPG's gearsets so far. They hold up to a LOT of power.

The cryo process is a deep heat treatment. Bringing it down to near absolute zero, causing the molecules permanently align in a stronger crystaline pattern. The parts are then brought back up to high temps in a similar cycling process to heat treating to put a little flexibility back into the metal. I believe they vary the process depending on application, also.

Steve

I know this is on a knife website, but their description of what cryo-treatment does, how it affects the grain structure, and changes austinite into martinsite is pretty dead on.

http://www.swordarmory.com/03kats/cryo.html

If you have a "shitty" set of gears, I think the cryo-treatment would help a lot more. If you have a good set of gears that have had a fair amount of metalurgical time put into their manufacturing, I think cryo-treatment will have much less of an affect.

Like I mentioned there's a pretty big thread over on Nabisco about cryo-treating gears. There's probably a whole bunch of crap in it, and very little good info....you'd have to just wade through it.

I know there are types of metal casting that "assemble" the metal on a molecular level. They line up the molecules, then essentially bond all of that together.

Knife companies use it in some of their super-hard blades. They hold edges very well, and are incredibly strong.

I don't know if you could make a chunk of metal like that, then machine the gear out of that.

It would probably be cost exclusive.

I got a tranny, thanks Mike!