legacycentral bbs

OK guys i need some help here. I have a 94 legacy with a non-turbo ej22.

Now i have factory cams. due to the awsome bottom end power from them. the TB, intake pipe, and manifold on the engine are factory also. a "pod or open element filter" and only a simple exaust mod, a slip on canister and a reduction to 1 5/8" for 12 inches before the bumper. More back pressure at the rear, more tourqe. The clutch and flywheel have 195,000 on them and in all the car has just been modified for response.


NOW THE QUESTION: Is it normal to be able to get to 130mph in such a hurry it makes your V8 owning friends "wow" at it?

My car is fast. I know that i just got done owning alotta toyota 1.6 cars but this thing is retarded! My fastest TOYOTA did 0-60 in about 6 and a half seconds and trust me from stock to that is incredible.

Now i dont want to sound like a retard myself but has anyone ever seen the needle past the 140mph mark? Mine does it easy, like less than a mile of road and i am near top speed!


please dont ask if my speedo has been checked. Its accurate for a high milage car. I have a friend with an old datsun z car that has a speedo to 160, my brothers miata goes to 130, and my mazda guy has an mx-6 that also goes to 140. Everyone matches with me at 125mph and its acurate.




IS THIS NORMAL FOR THE 90-94 LEGACY NON TURBO TO BE THIS QUICK WITH JUST AN INTAKE AND EXAUST SLIGHTLY MODDED???

thanks for reading my rambling!


ben

I could probably do that in both my wagons. I remember hearing that the 5MT won't hit the high speeds of the AT's.

I did 100mph in my 90 FWD 4EAT easy! I won't be atempting it in my 91 AWD 5MT untill the brakes are up to par.

Good to know, i think i may have stumbled upon something worth sticking with for a LONG time.

Anyone else have numbers on the zero to sixty for their car?

I dont have an official reading, but timed by stopwatch my 92 4EAT Turbo (intercooled@12PSI, some minor intake and exhaust mods and a few other bits a pieces) is a shade under 7 seconds

6.8-6.9 I'd say.

iirc...the NA Legacy ran somewhere around 8.5 0-60 and 17.2ish 1/4 mile stock.

I've hit 115 downhill. I could have kept going, but 140 seems doubtful without more power.

So because you beat 1.6 toyotas this car is "fast"?

jamal wrote:I've hit 115 downhill. I could have kept going, but 140 seems doubtful without more power.

I dunno, i managed to top out the speedometer on my old 1990 n/a legacy. it was in Nebraska on I-80 and it took a while though.

Does it read in kilometers by chance?

ej2294legacySS wrote:Now i have factory cams. due to the awsome bottom end power from them.

Factory cams don't help bottom end. Subaru cams tend to be fairly mild. Relatively large gains can be had from a simple re-grind. Aftermarket cams in the turbo cars can do worlds to increase the performance.

a "pod or open element filter"

Arguably harms performance more than helps. I'll let this slide.

and only a simple exaust mod, a slip on canister and a reduction to 1 5/8" for 12 inches before the bumper. More back pressure at the rear, more tourqe.

This, however, I won't let slide. Who told you increased backpressure adds torque? It doesn't. It's a pure lie. Simple, honest, backpressure is the enemy. The "slip on canister" is also a load of crap. Doesn't do anything for performance. Period.

NOW THE QUESTION: Is it normal to be able to get to 130mph in such a hurry it makes your V8 owning friends "wow" at it?

I dunno. Happens to me all the time. But my car isn't normal.

My car is fast. I know that i just got done owning alotta toyota 1.6 cars but this thing is retarded! My fastest TOYOTA did 0-60 in about 6 and a half seconds and trust me from stock to that is incredible.

A 1.6L? Umm.... alright. Didn't the tercel's have 1.6's?

Now i dont want to sound like a retard myself but has anyone ever seen the needle past the 140mph mark? Mine does it easy, like less than a mile of road and i am near top speed!

While I have come close, I've never burried the needle. I'm not THAT stupid. But since my car clears 100mph with such ease, I'd probably find it difficult to NOT reach 140mph in under a mile.

please dont ask if my speedo has been checked. Its accurate for a high milage car. I have a friend with an old datsun z car that has a speedo to 160, my brothers miata goes to 130, and my mazda guy has an mx-6 that also goes to 140. Everyone matches with me at 125mph and its acurate.

I'm with Nick. Does it read in KPH? I was actually unaware that the speedo's in an N/A's went to 140mph. I know the turbo's do. I've never had an N/A Gen1 Legacy, and I don't remember the ones I've sat in.

IS THIS NORMAL FOR THE 90-94 LEGACY NON TURBO TO BE THIS QUICK WITH JUST AN INTAKE AND EXAUST SLIGHTLY MODDED???

Sorry Ben. Since the modifications you've done have likely hurt more than they helped, I'd say you are mistaken.

Take a video so we can all see if it's true! Based on my automotive experience and knowledge, I'd have to say that it's a little unlikely.

If you look at his name is says "94legacySS" This would imply turbo....but then he goes on to say it is a "non-turbo EJ22."

WHICH IS IT!!

He also says in his title "where it snows alot." This could be someplace foreign for all we know.

WE NEED ANSWERS DUDE!...or we will get out the flame throwers.

BAC5.2 wrote:

and only a simple exaust mod, a slip on canister and a reduction to 1 5/8" for 12 inches before the bumper. More back pressure at the rear, more tourqe.

This, however, I won't let slide. Who told you increased backpressure adds torque? It doesn't. It's a pure lie. Simple, honest, backpressure is the enemy. The "slip on canister" is also a load of crap. Doesn't do anything for performance. Period.

+1, backpressure is what hurts performance. Its caused by gasses cooling inside the exhaust pipe and slowing down the flow. smooth airflow helps torque, which means less backpressure = better. However, you can't get too extreme (like 4" piping) because then the air will be too free and not flow.

BAC5.2 wrote:

My car is fast. I know that i just got done owning alotta toyota 1.6 cars but this thing is retarded! My fastest TOYOTA did 0-60 in about 6 and a half seconds and trust me from stock to that is incredible.

A 1.6L? Umm.... alright. Didn't the tercel's have 1.6's?

I think they had 1.5L's actually

I've got a stock, engine wise, NA with a young fresh engine (<140k) and it definately pulls stronger than what most people expect.

My 0-60 is around 8-10 sec depending on launch, weather, etc....

I've 'topped' it at 126, still climbing but ran out of room. However, I doubt that it will reach 140 mph. I'd estimate a top around 130-135 mph, with more than a mile. The 126 run I had was from a stand still running it to 6k in each gear before shifting and I used a good .6-.7 mile to get there.

But then again, I'm also FWD so I weigh less than most of the guys on the board....

In short, I won't say the NA is 'fast', however, I will definately call it 'quick' and have beaten a large number of cars in street races who weren't expecting to lose.

ej229

Car and Driver Feb,1991 road test of a Subaru Legacy Sports Sedan:

0 to 60 mph at 7.9 seconds---1/4 mile at 16.1.

The article didn't include the speed at the end of the 1/4. Mentioned was that it was the 5mt and the stock boost was 8.7 psi.

The list was US$19,350.

.

555BCTurbo wrote:Does it read in kilometers by chance?

no, by chance it doesn't. If you've ever driven I-80, you'd know that you don't run out of room. That '90 legacy L was faster than the 2002 legacy GT that the owner (my aunt) bought after it. Even with 250,000 miles on it. I can't stand to drive her legacy because it feels soo slow compared to mine.

Subtle wrote:ej229

Car and Driver Feb,1991 road test of a Subaru Legacy Sports Sedan:

0 to 60 mph at 7.9 seconds---1/4 mile at 16.1.

The article didn't include the speed at the end of the 1/4. Mentioned was that it was the 5mt and the stock boost was 8.7 psi.

The list was US$19,350.

.

But he says he isn't running a turbo engine although his title would imply otherwise. I'm so lost!

My fwd ran a 16.3 @ ~86 IIRC back in the happier days of it's life (150K) and I got it up to an indicated 133. 0-60 came in about 8 flat at best. I really think mine was a ringer as it should not have been able to run even with a 323i. N/A speedos do go to 140, Phil. No way it's faster than that. I think these motors were underrated from the factory, but not by enough to account for that much speed. Even optimistic power/weight figures just don't match.

Don't get confused between back pressure and pulse tuning. I hear this all the time. Back pressure is ALWAYS bad - it's a pumping restriction and if you're engine isn't pumping, then it isn't making power. Different pipe sizes and shapes are designed to accomodate exhaust flow at a certain rpm range (whatever the designers wanted to sell; ie, high end, low end, mid range. What may work for low end airflow will hurt high end and vice versa due to the differences in pulse speeds, volume, and exhaust temps). Back pressure will hurt more the higher the rpm, so maybe people get confused as their top end dies, making their bottom end feel so much stronger and nobody wants to think they spent money on something that doesn't work, especially when they lack the knowledge to understand why ... which of course led to and perpetuates the problem. As a note, the same principles of pulse tuning apply for intakes. You should be able to find more about this in a search here or in google, but there are plenty of books about this, too.

Steve

Yeah the FWD's top out around 130 mph due to lack of power....or at least my AT did, and it took a little bit to get it up to that. 100 mph is cake. Once you start increasing speed much above that your drag increases significantly. The FWD AT's have a technical top speed of 160 due to the gearing, but without more power, they won't hit that.

Yeah, my manual with the 3.7 is somewhere around 170, but ... yeah right. The wagon starts to float noticeably after 115 and gets scary after 120+. Scary unless you're hoping to kill yourself, that is.

Steve

I still think my Legacy has all the power it did when it was new. It pulls really nice at 4k-up.

However, I doubt I could get it to do much better than a 9-sec 0-60 if I'm being nice to it (no clutch-dumping). Motor Trend rated the AWD LS 5-spd loaded at 9.8-sec 0-60, here's the stats

And I've gotten mine up to 110, and I don't think it'd do much more than 115-120.

These cars are fun and fast in their own right, but let's be reasonable here. They're not going to hang with the likes of a BMW 540i or Caddy CTS-V.

Had some dinner and a liitle(rpt little) red wine and got back to the files.

A test in Turbo Magazine of Sept,1991 quotes the same acceleration numbers and adds that the top speed was "a tad under 130".

The Fall,1992 edition of Canadian publication, Carguide, tested the "Touring Wagon".

With the 4eat the 0 to 100kph(62mph) came in at 9.1 seconds and the 80k to 120k at 6.8 seconds.

The curb weight of the wgn was 1430kg which works out to 3146 lbs which compares to the 3140 lbs for the SS noted in the other test magazine.

They get faster with age, too.

Steve

ej2294legacySS wrote:OK guys i need some help here. I have a 94 legacy with a non-turbo ej22.

NO TURBO!!

EJ22 - Popular engine used in Subarus 90-up

94- short for 1994 the year

Legacy - Popular Subaru line of cars.

SS - Abreviation of "Sport Sedan." A popular line of Subaru Legacys with turbos

This dude is soo gonna hate me.

Don't we all?


j/k

This dude quoted the road tests ot the 2.2 turbos for two reasons:

To record impartial benchmarks.

And because I had no interest in keeping tests of the N/A cars.

I'm assuming that an ej22t in normal, but good tune is faster than a normal ej22 also in good tune.

ej239's statement about restricted exhaust and increased torque is dead wrong and his revelations about the performance of his normal ej22 could be equally impressionistic.