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Anyone here tried Megasquirt?
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:01 am
by IronMonkeyL255
I was debating going with a standalone EM system, and this looks to be a very affordable option.
I just had a few questions about it:
Can the MS-I control spark as well as fuel? In the description, it says fuel control, but in the specifics, it mentions use of ignition coil triggering and an onboard direct ignition coil driver. The MS-II description says specifically fuel and ignition. It's a $60 difference, so if the -I can do what I want it to, that'd be awesome.
Would this completely eliminate the need for the stock ECU? If so, would it mess with my auto tranny any? Isn't there some data sharing between the ECU and the TCU?
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:05 am
by Splinter
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:42 pm
by vrg3
At the moment, MegaSquirt actually can be a bit more versatile MegaSquirt-II because of the firmware. In particular, the "MegaSquirt-n-Spark-Extra" firmware can do a kajillion different things including various types of spark control. MegaSquirt-II has much much more potential though.
None of the spark control mechanisms works directly with what we've got, but you could just adapt a Ford EDIS system to your engine and then use either MegaSquirt's ignition setup.
You do also need to add an intake temperature sensor.
The stock coolant temperature sensor can be made to work with the appropriate modifications to the lookup table in MegaSquirt, and the electrical modification if the stock ECU still shares it.
The TPS motion is reversed as compared to what MegaSquirt likes. If the stock ECU is still around, you'll either have to condition the signal (look for a post I made about doing this for the Perfect Power) or modify the code (which isn't hard).
With some hacking, MegaSquirt or MegaSquirt-II can replace the stock ECU, but it might be easier to leave it so it can continue to control idle and the radiator fans and the air conditioning compressor and whatnot.
Read up at:
http://www.megasquirt.info/
http://www.msefi.com/
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:45 pm
by vrg3
Oh, sorry, I forgot you had asked about an automatic.
The TCU basically just needs a TPS signal and a tach signal. I believe EDIS would supply a usable tach signal, which you'll want for your actual tachometer anyway, and you'll have to leave your stock TPS wiring alone.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:35 pm
by IronMonkeyL255
So you mean I could get something like this to work:
Brand: Accel
Product Line: Accel Ford 4-Tower Style EDIS Super Coil Packs
Coil Wire Attachment: Female/Socket
Coil Style: Coil pack
Coil Internal Construction: Epoxy
Maximum Voltage: 42,000
Turns Ratio: 85:1
Primary Resistance: 0.500 ohms
Secondary Resistance: 11.6K ohms
Mounting Bracket Included: No
Coil Wire Included: No
Ballast Resistor Included: No
Coil Color: Black/Yellow
Coil Shape: Square
Quantity: Sold individually.
Would I just have to hook that up, or would I need their version of our igniter?
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:00 pm
by IronMonkeyL255
Okay.
After a bit more looking around, I figure I need an EDIS-4 control module. I may be able to get away with using the stock ignition coil, which would be awesome.
The main thing I am wondering about is how to get the VR signal for the unit without retrofitting a 36-1 wheel to the crank. Would there be a way to use or modify the stock crank angle sensor to give what it is looking for?
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:18 pm
by vrg3
You can use that coil pack, but, yes, you need the EDIS control module. The stock coil pack may or may not work.
You need to use the EDIS wheel. It's not that big a deal to fit it to the stock crankshaft pulley and then make a bracket to hold the pickup in the right position (a stock Subaru cam or crank sensor pickup would actually be a good choice).
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:31 am
by IronMonkeyL255
Hmmm.......
Main thing is, it looks like with alot more work, you can get it to work with the stock components.
I may have to look into the EDIS setup, though, as it looks to be much better documented.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:06 am
by IronMonkeyL255
Also, playing with MegaTune, there is some pretty cool stuff in here.
It has a TPS calibrator built in, along with traction control and boost control in the MSnS-E firmware.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:41 am
by vrg3
Yes, in principle there's no reason you couldn't make it work without adding things under the hood. After all, the stock ECU does.
Yeah, MSnS-E has a kajillion features and they're adding them all the time (although they're starting to hit the limits). Many aren't very well-tested, but they're there, and waiting for someone (someone like you!) to do it.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:02 am
by IronMonkeyL255
I may try this if I could get some help from you and the others doing tuning on our engines.
Honestly, I would prefer to get it to work with the stock ignition setup. I noticed, it also has a wheel decoder for the VR sensor/coil control. So theoretically, I could at least get the crank sensor working.
I'm probably not going to use alot of these features, but it's nice to know they're there. I may get adventurous and try water injection later, but I'm never going to try nitrous and will probably have no need for launch control.
Are our injectors low or high impedence? I'm assuming low, but want to make sure.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:05 am
by vrg3
There's actually already a dual-wheel decoder in MSnS-E, too. It's for the Neon engine's cam and crank sensors. I don't know how big a leap it would be to go from there to ours in the framework laid out by the existing code.
Our injectors are high-impedance.
Honestly, I think you'll get more help on the MegaSquirt forums than here on tuning. In principle it's not that hard though...
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:14 am
by IronMonkeyL255
Main thing is I want to find out how to get it in and running in our cars, and I think there will be a bit more info regarding our vehicles here.
I do plan on going over to the MS forums as well, but will probably wait until closer to the date of implementation.
I plan on getting it a basic setup, then going to get it professionally tuned. There's a tuner down in ATL that really know his stuff, and has worked with MS before.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:46 am
by vrg3
Cool. I'll help you figure stuff out. It's all pretty simple.
The TPS signal will have to be conditioned with the circuit described here:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 495#150495
To get it started running as a fuel-only piggyback, I think you should be able to take a tach signal from the two ignition control channels, using diodes to combine their signals. Connect an anode to each ignition channel and the cathodes together to MegaSquirt's tach input.
This thermfactor.inc file should be correct for the stock Subaru coolant temperature sensor:
Code: Select all
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:13 am
by IronMonkeyL255
Sweet.
By doing that to the tach signal, you mean F47.9 and F47.10?
How would you suggest doing that as a fuel/spark system?
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:09 am
by vrg3
Yes, that's what I mean.
If you're also running spark with EDIS, then you get the tach signal for the tachometer and TCU from the PIP or IDM line of the EDIS unit. I think they're directly compatible. If not, we'll have to think of something.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:35 pm
by IronMonkeyL255
I was noticing that on the latest versions of the MSnS-E firmware, they have an option for tachometer output.
Talking to one of the guys on Nasioc who is using MS-II in his EJ22E swap into his '88 RX, it looks like our cars use a 6/7 wheel for crank angle, while the EJ205 and EJ257 use a 36-2 wheel. They are supposedly releasing a MS-II version 3 that will support both of these.
I'm gonna try to get more info, but this looks like a good thing to wait for.
uh huh huh Megasquirt, loaughing at that name....
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:41 am
by Bheinen74
just had to make fun of that name, sounds like the name for a porno star or ??? something worse.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:57 am
by IronMonkeyL255
Did I mention that while assembling it, you use the Megasquirt Stimulator?
Just another funny thing.
Will, the other guy putting this on an EJ22 was going to be writing most of the reference files from scratch, so I'll see if I can get my hands on that once he's done.
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:45 pm
by 93forestpearl
Wouldn't it be possible for someone to write the code to read the Subaru cam and crank triggers? I'm shying away from the MS because I have enough ahead of me to get my car going.
So, anyone interested in a MegaSquirt II Ver. 3? I have one sitting here assembled, tested, jumpered for VR, and loaded with MSnS-E and all that.
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:32 am
by IronMonkeyL255
how much?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:03 am
by devej22
Hey guys, I'm new hear but have some experiance with Megasquirt unfortunatly not with Subarus but its pretty much similar where ever you try to install it. MS is very simple yet very powerful. Couldnt be easier to install (i had fuel only on a BMW 528i). Piss easy to tune (take many datalogs and use Megatune and MSTweak to calculate a new VE table according to the Oxy sensor reading)
If you are going to do your own tuning a WIDEBAND OXY SENSOR IS A MUST!!! Its worth alittle more then the ecu itself but it's an invaluable tuning tool. I highly recommend the Innovate Motorsports LC-1 (no affiliation)
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php
I have done little in the way of tuning ignition but shouldnt be to hard. MS is constantly being updated and MSII would be the way to go simply because of the higher potential.
I have learnt heaps by reading and thats what i suggest you do. It is well worth it and can be a challenge at times. A piggyback set up would cause less in the way of headaches but might prove more challenging to make both ecus share the sensors, very doable though.
Any questions just ask!
