legacycentral bbs

After some thought and I have made a solid goal for my car. I am looking to possibly get some track experience in the coming years and I often commute to college via country(ish) roads so I want my car to stop and handle like a champ. Getting the car to go fast (and doing so reliably) is more money and time then I want to invest right now. Everything totals around $5,000 and I'm a poor college student my goal is to have all this done by the end of this summer. So here are the parts I'm thinking about:

-replace wearing items including: tie rods, ball joints, BB
-Rota Torques, Mesh or SDR wheels 17x7.5
-some sort of high performance summer tire
-OEM Leggy GT brake package or other brake upgrade (maybe a BBK?)
-good pads/fluid
-Whiteline front 22mm swaybar
-Whiteline HD endlinks/mounts
-KYB AGX struts
-good alignment

Let me know what you think of this combo and offer up any suggestions. Thanks guys.

Probably a good idea to list my current mods (94 Legacy Turbo):
KYB GR-2 struts, STi mounts, H&R springs, Whitline rear sway/endlinks WRX front brake conversion, racing brake rotors, Hawk HPS pads.

Sounds like a solid plan. I'd toss some quality springs onto the car while your at it.

Beefy front bar = understeer, so maybe upgrade the rear bar at the same time.

Alignments go a LONG way. A good alignment is second to tire-choice in terms of handling bang-for-buck.

H & R's are kickass springs Phil..

I negelected to mention my mods before Phil posted that.

I would suggest skipping the 17" wheels and BBK. Both of those will just rob you of power (because of rotational mass), and be detrimental to handling (by increasing unsprung weight). Not many people have a chance to do it, but if you had a dyno chart before and after a BBK install, you'd see lower numbers with bigger rotors and bigger wheels to cover them.

If performance is really the qualifier, and cost is a limiting factor, skip the cosmetic upgrades. You already have the WRX brakes, so there are plenty of pad options, and you only need 16" wheels to clear them. If this is a year around daily driver, you'd be better served by getting a extra set of WRX wheels so you can have all seasons (or snow tires) on one set, and high performance summer tires on the other set. The killer summer tires will make your braking and handling better.

Also, if your GR2's are fairly fresh, I'd be inclined to roll with then for a while. Considering you already have struts, H&R springs, and a rear sway bar, I would suggest:

- STi Gp. N motor mounts, tranny mount.
- any new/upgraded chassis & suspension bushings you are able to install.
- WRX wheels w/ Falken Azenis or whatever the autox & track guys like for sticky rubber this year.
- brake fluid (Super Blue or something good).
- pads if you need them.
- stainless brake lines to make the brakes feel better.
- Whiteline front swaybar.
- Alignment.

These are things that will make performance differences, and make your car feel better along the way.

If you want to spend $ on bling, then go ahead and get the big wheels and heavy brakes to go with them.

While bigger wheels and brakes rob power, they still make you faster (around a track). 2 sides to the crack pipe.

Yes, increased rotational mass = decrease in acceleration and power output. But a wider, stickier tire and a larger brake option increase total available grip and control of grip.

Any brakes will lock the wheel. It's the modulation ability that's the key factor.

Can you modulate tiny brakes? Yes, you can. But it takes that much more effort, which means you are more concentrated on the middle pedal and less on the road/track. The wider, stiffer tires, increase communication with the road, and help you further handle your newfound brake modulation.

So performance by the numbers may be down an insignificant amount, but the performance gains in the ability of the car and driver communication increase exponentially.

I'll leave out the argument of larger rotors dissipating and storing heat much more efficiently.

^Yeah right now I'm more concerned with handling, better braking and brake feel, and how the car drives rather then power. I'm not looking for 17" wheels just for looks, a more responsive feel, more brake options and yes I like the look too.

Those are good points, BAC5.2, but when you factor in cost I think the other mods I mention would make more of a difference on a daily basis.

I agree that wider tires increase grip, but you can't really put tires on the car that won't fit on a 6.5" or 7" wheel anyway. And 17" vs. 16" won't make that much difference in this case. Especially when you factor in the additional cost of 17" tires over 16" tires. Now, if you want to get some really light 17" wheels.... but that's even more money , isn't it?

If it's a question of have the 17's and the big brakes, and NOT doing the other stuff, I'd rather go with the list I posted. If you can do my list, AND the 17's and brakes-- good for you. I'd rather bring up all aspects of the car to a similar level of performace, instead of ignoring one part to over do a different part. A car is a system, and the performance of the whole thing depends on the performance of each subsystem. The extra level of grip that you might get with the 17"s (if you choose wisely and spend the $) may be lost if the worn out or soft bushings can't maintain your alignment geometry when the cornering forces build up.

And lets not forget another area of performance improvement: the nut behind the wheel. Spend a few bucks on track time and instruction, and that will make you better and faster.

But, hey, he asked my opinion and that's what I've posted. YMMV. I'll bet someone out there agrees with me. Someone? Anyone?

ultrasonic wrote:I would suggest skipping the 17" wheels and BBK. Both of those will just rob you of power (because of rotational mass)

Also, if your GR2's are fairly fresh, I'd be inclined to roll with then for a while. Considering you already have struts, H&R springs, and a rear sway bar, I would suggest:

- STi Gp. N motor mounts, tranny mount.
- any new/upgraded chassis & suspension bushings you are able to install.
- WRX wheels w/ Falken Azenis or whatever the autox & track guys like for sticky rubber this year.
- brake fluid (Super Blue or something good).
- pads if you need them.
- stainless brake lines to make the brakes feel better.
- Whiteline front swaybar.
- Alignment.

I whole-heartedly agree with most of what Ultrasonic said. I would skip the 17's and bigger brakes. They will not make you stop faster, only a little longer. The benefit is if you have fade problems on a track. I personally have never had any problems with fade on OEM WRX pads every time I went to BeaveRun. And with Hawk HPS pads I think you are golden when it comes to braking (I currently have Hawks, too). Get some SS lines if you don't have them and pick up a couple cans of Super Blue. I would also find a Wagon Prop Valve to get some more pressure to your rear wheels, though.

I also would only recommend a 20mm front sway bar unless you are going huge with the rear bar. You will love what it does for the feel of your car. And definitely get the STi Group-N tranny mount if you have not done it yet, makes the car feel more solid. The front solid endlinks will have the same effect and go well with the upgraded front bar. Steering rack bushings will help with the steering feel and get rid of memory steer. And if you want to replace worn things check the wheel bearings, too. Skip the AGX's if your GR2's are fine. If you want to upgrade, I would start looking for STi take-offs (Inverted 40mm strut ) with matching springs, can't beat it. And will probably cost less than 4 AGX's.

William

I see your point, and I'm not saying to NOT do those other things.

Wheels/Tires/brakes (properly chosen) will greatly increase the performance of the car. But they should be coupled with other mods.

But there is a big difference between a tire on a 16" rim and a tire on a 17" rim (given the same diameter). Less sidewall = Less deflection = greater steering accuracy. Not to mention that with a 17" wheel, you can run a wider tire with a more advantageous profile.

A 225 on a 6.5" rim is going to be fairly bulbous and fairly inclined to try and roll off the rim. A 225 on a 7.5" rim, and you acheive a better profile and can push the tire a lot harder.

You CAN put 225's on a 17 x 7.5" rim and stick it on the Legacy.

Remember, the last 6 things on your list, are already on his car (with different tires).

The engine/tranny/suspension mounts total under $300. Plenty of room to spend ~1,000 on a nice set of wheels and tires. Or you could do some searching and get an even better deal.

BAC5.2 wrote: You CAN put 225's on a 17 x 7.5" rim and stick it on the Legacy.

What size tire do you recommend for 17" wheels on a BC/BF Legacy? Weren't you running 225/45/17?