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understanding turbos

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:04 pm
by 206er
there are a lot of different sized turbos ever made.
how do I go about choosing the right one?
what do A/R's mean, and are they a constant measurement for all turbos, like a garret turbo with a .5 cold side and a mistubishi turbo with a .5 cold side would flow the same?
is there a method for using the A/R figure and CC, max rpm, and desired hp to size a turbo to a motor?
I ASSuME that the compressor map has something to do with the A/R, how are these related and what use are they in sizing the turbo to the motor?
what are the advantages of sizing the hot sides and cold sides differently? just spool time or something else?
thanks for bearing with these newb ass questions. :wink:

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:07 am
by 93forestpearl
Here's a good read.


http://www.se-r.net/car_info/project_ca ... te/#theory

And another.


" There are several factors that determine the performance of a turbo charger. The three most important ones are the type of exhaust turbine, the A/R ratio of the exhaust housing, and the size of the compressor turbine. Usually, it seems that the exhaust turbine is just referred to as the "turbine" and the compressor turbine is referred to as the "compressor wheel".
The Exhaust Turbine
The exhaust turbine design is a balance between absorbing as much energy from the exhaust gasses as possible and allowing the gasses to flow as easily as possible. This is closely related to the size of the exhaust housing. A larger turbine can absorb more energy from the gasses and spin the shaft with more torque and speed, but too large a turbine will restrict the flow of exhaust such that engine performance is greatly reduced. Typically, the inducer is only slightly larger than the exducer on the exhaust turbine. Generally, you would want to stick with the stock turbine because it's size is not nearly as important as the compressor turbine's size. If you want to reduce restriction through a smaller housing, you can have the turbine "clipped", which reduces the size of the fins and allows more air to flow around the turbine.
The Turbine Housings
The exhaust and compressor housings on turbo chargers use a "scroll" design. For example, the exhaust housing's scroll is where the exhaust gasses enter the housing and are directed at the turbine. It's basically a smooth, tubular chamber that surrounds the turbine with a slot all the way around that acts as a nozzle to direct the exhaust gasses at the turbine. It's called a scroll because it slowly gets smaller in diameter as a goes around the turbine. This pressurizes the gasses, forcing them out of the slot/nozzle at a fast rate. In turbo-terms, the scroll is measured by the cross-sectional area of the scroll's "tube" (A) and the distance from the center of the "tube" to the turbine shaft (R). The values by themselves are not meaningful to the user and for the most part, R does not change much for different housings, but by dividing R into A, you get the A/R ratio. So, the A/R ratio of the exhaust housing refers to the size and shape of the scroll that is cast into the housing. It basically determines how restrictive the housing will be, versus how quickly the turbine will spin up. A lower A/R ratio (smaller scroll area, A) results in a more restrictive housing. This restriction speeds up the exhaust gasses and increases the amount that the gasses will expand. It's the speed and expansion of the gasses that causes the turbine to spin. So with a low A/R ratio, the turbine will spin up quicker, but as engine output and rpms increase, the restriction of the housing begins to build up too much back pressure on the engine, which reduces performance. A good rule of thumb for when there is too much back pressure is when the pressure in the exhaust manifold is more the half of the pressure in the cylinder. So basically, a larger A/R ratio will improve your engine's top end, while losing some mid range power and increasing turbo lag. A smaller A/R ratio will help the bottom and mid-range, but may effect the top end.

On the compressor side, the housing also features a scroll design, but it has the opposite function. The air leaving the compressor turbine has a lot of speed, but not much pressure. The scroll on the compressor housing starts small and gets larger as it approaches the compressor outlet. This collects the air and builds up air pressure. So, the compressor housing is designed to convert the speed-energy of the air coming off of the compressor turbine into pressure-energy, which is much more useful to an engine.
The Compressor Turbine
The size of the compressor turbine determines the maximum amount of boost that the turbo charger can produce. It also effects the spool-up time of the turbo. The type of compressor wheel is usually designated as its "trim", which is a value that describes the inducer and exducer sizes. Typically, the exducer is significantly larger than the inducer on a compressor turbine.

So in conclusion, a turbo charger's design becomes a balancing act between these three factors. "







The A/R is basically the size of the scroll verses the distance from the center. So the larger the A/R on the turbine side, the more energy it takes to move it, but is not as restrictive at higher flowrates, thus having better top end. The turbine with the smaller A/R may, and I mean maybe, spool up faster, but will be restrictive at the high end of flow.


This help at all?

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:10 pm
by 206er
thanks!
good read.

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:22 pm
by bmxkelowna
http://www.mazdarotary.net/turbo.htm

this was a good site i found when i was learning how turbos work