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hybrid car homework

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:34 am
by scottzg
i had to write a paper based on an interview for my environmental ethics class. Figured i'd stick it up on the web, to be immortalized and copywrited.
Having wrenched on cars as a hobby and car owner for the last 7 years, hybrid vehicles have always piqued my curiosity. This curiosity took me to Stevens Creek Toyota, where I talked to **** ***. Rather than be entirely honest and admit that I was a student gathering information for a report and risk being snubbed, I dressed and played the part of the wealthy hippie, and was thus able to get a very good interview.

I drove a hybrid Camry and a Prius, both of which are very nice cars. The Prius was very slow, but the screen that displayed where the power was going and the amazingly quiet interior meant that I wasn’t bored as a driver. The Camry, however, was a rather quick car, which didn’t make much sense for a green vehicle. Apparently while the Prius is a world market vehicle, the Camry hybrid was designed with the American palette in mind, and so it’s faster and more economical than a normal four cylinder model. For all this better car, I was offered an out-the-door price that was about 7 thousand dollars more than the equivalent 4 cylinder; a difference that will never pay for itself in gas savings.
Toyota produces the most advanced hybrids in the world. Any other manufacturer’s hybrid car is a normal internal combustion engine with an electric motor instead of a flywheel. The engine runs all the time, and the electric motor can kick in extra power when necessary, recharging by using the electric motor as a generator. These cars save power by allowing the car to have a smaller engine while still maintaining the same peak output. Toyota’s hybrids go further though. They can be run entirely off the electric motor at low speed and in reverse. The gearbox is simpler because it doesn’t need to have a reverse gear; the electric motor does it all. When you stop, the engine turns off, and when you press the gas to go again, the electric motor uses its tremendous torque to get the car rolling again, only engaging the gas engine when more power is required.

I mentioned that I had heard that the hybrid cars did better on emissions tests than they did in the real world, and was told that that was because the owners didn’t necessarily drive their cars in a manner that optimized the hybrid system. The hybrid cars loved cruise control; any chance to let the computer decide when to kick on the gas engine (it would cruise at low speed on electric power, but goosing the throttle a little would turn on the gas) reaped huge dividends. It didn’t seem intuitive, but the hybrid system benefited when the driver got on the brakes as early as possible; the system could only recharge the batteries under light braking, heavy normal stops (like my normal stop, I’m told) does little to recharge. The hybrid really suffers when you only make short trips; if the gas engine never warms up then it can’t go to full efficiency.
I was concerned that the hybrid vehicles’ batteries would have considerable environmental cost. In addition to the initial cost of producing the batteries, the batteries probably have toxic substances, most notably lead. Toyota doesn’t use lead-acid batteries; they’ve switched to nickel metal hydride. They’ve even posted a phone number on the bottom of the batteries; they pay to see them returned to the company so they can be recycled.
The batteries are an extra 200lbs, and it seemed like the extra weight of the system would compromise the character and safety of the vehicle. This was the case in the Camry, where the battery packs were stuck behind the back seats, eating into the trunk, but not so much in the Prius, which was designed around a hybrid drive train. The Prius has the batteries in the floor and in the chassis rails, where they have minimal effect on the roll of the vehicle and don’t eat into the passenger compartment.
I was frequently reminded that both the Camry and Prius were AT-PZEV, or Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicles, the cleanest on the market, producing 90% less emission than a typical new car. This seemed somewhat remarkable at the time, but further research at home revealed that this meant both cars were PZEV hybrids, and while there aren’t many AT-PZEV cars, there are 32 PZEV cars on the market, or non-hybrids conforming to the same emissions standards.
There’s currently a 2000$ tax credit available when you buy a hybrid vehicle. With the credit in place, the hybrid car’s additional price will be reabsorbed by the savings on fuel before the car is terribly old. It takes more initial capital to get a hybrid car, though, and so many people may feel that additional perks are necessary to make a hybrid car worthwhile.

i wrote this pretty drunk. :grin:

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:42 pm
by magicmike
a good read non the less. you get an A+

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:45 am
by Richard
Sorry if I sound like a hater, but I was always a huge critic of projects and papers. I was never happy with my own work, nor anyone else's. This caused me to produce "outstanding" work, as the teacher described it. I wish I had saved some of that.

Anyways - here's my take:

From what you wrote, it sounds like Toyota pays for your new batteries or pays you for the old ones. Now, I know the new batteries will cost you some dough and Toyota will probably pay the dealers/service shops for their old batteries. But how you wrote it with only certain details surrounding the battery situation leads me to that conclusion.

I haven't taken environmental ethics so I don't know what exactly they look for in a paper. But I read this more as a technical analysis that doesn't go into too much detail. How this corresponds to environmental ethics, I really don't know, other than it's about an environmentally friendlier car and the company pays to get their batteries back.

I would have focused more on the buyback as this most pertains to ethics. It seemed that you were all over the place about the cars instead of making one central point.

Nevertheless, I'm not familiar with the class or what the teacher expects. I am a prick when it comes to papers and essays though, so take all this with a grain of salt. I do hope, however, that this helps you in some way.

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:34 am
by scottzg
the assignment was to interview someone about an environmental topic and then write a report on the interview. the paper is all over the place because each paragraph deals with one topic that i was able to broach while doing the test drives. It was only a 3 page paper, so there wasn't much room for detail (not that the sales guy really knew much) or analysis... and my opinions would run counter to the prof's regarding hybrids (he drives one) so i didnt really want to get into it anyway.

toyota pays 200$ ea. for the dead batteries.

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:56 pm
by wiscon_mark
scottzg wrote:toyota pays 200$ ea. for the dead batteries.
Did you get a quote on a new set?

I think the Honda batteries were a couple thousand though.

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:09 pm
by scottzg
wiscon_mark wrote:
scottzg wrote:toyota pays 200$ ea. for the dead batteries.
Did you get a quote on a new set?

nope, not relevent to the report.

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:46 pm
by stipro
Not that it means alot, but it is somewhat relavent to posting a topic involving Toyota hybrids on a Subaru legacy forum. This is in regards to the batteries for the hybrids, they where infact desinged and built by, you guessed it, FHI. One of Subarus top engineers is a battery genius.

The money that FHI(Subaru) made from the sale of this technology has gone into their new diesel engine development, which is set to come out in the next few years. Unfortunatley it will initially only be available in Europe, and will be intoduced in the Legacy platform.

Just imagine a "boxer" turbo diesel motor. Thats pretty cool, and it looks quite unique.

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:15 am
by AWD_addict
That Legacy will probably have some nice torque!
Subaru also has a turbo gas hybrid concept.

The Camry hybrid is probably quicker because it would have to compete with the Accord hybrid.

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:31 pm
by wiscon_mark
AWD_addict wrote:The Camry hybrid is probably quicker because it would have to compete with the Accord hybrid.
It's nowhere close. The Accord Hybrid is an absolute beast.

No 5/6MT though :evil:

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:25 am
by AWD_addict
Oh yeah, the Accord is a V6 hybrid! I mean compete as in 'mid size sedan' model range.

They are both autos.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:06 pm
by wiscon_mark
Well, it's more viable for the hondas to be a Manual, because their hybrid system is different. In theirs, the gas engine is always running, not turning on and off, so it'd be easier to put a 5MT in without having to work on another engagement system where it can sucessfully turn on and shut off the engine while not interfereing with the driver's control, etc.

The civic hybrid has a manual, but no Accord love :(

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:28 am
by Bheinen74
Honda is coming out and selling in 2008 a Hydrogen car (selling it in US and Japan), and it is a single speed transaxle................saw it in my dads magazine last weekend. It is a Hydrogen/hybrid, and the battery in located in the center console.

http://www.hondanews.com/catID2047?mid= ... 8&mime=asc