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92 turbo 5spd intake chimney question?
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:02 am
by LEAVINALEGACY93
i was wondering if having no intake chimney on my car will damage it ?
and other than being able to access the turbo easier why would the previous owner remove it?
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:14 am
by mgroshong
it shouldn't hurt anything, although it was on there for a reason from the factory.
it could have rusted loose and rattled or maybe it got bent, or w/e never know
i would say find a new one and install it.
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:37 pm
by Dynamic Entry
Many people take it out to accommodate aftermarket parts like an intercooler. If you have a stock set up the hood scoop and ducting directs air to where the chimney ought to be. Thus cold air is directed towards the turbo, but maybe more so the heat can vent efficiently out of the engine bay.
I have been running without a chimney for about 9 months now. No problems yet. Many of our cars don't have chimneys b/c of intercooler.
So if you are going to intercool with a top mount don't worry about it. If you aren't, then you can buy my chimney (=
Where in Canada are you?
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:51 am
by BB
So if you are going to intercool with a top mount don't worry about it. If you aren't, then you can buy my chimney (=
Totally disagree. Do you realise how much heat gets radiated from the turbine to the intercooler?
That corner of my IC gets wicked hot without a heatshield.
CHECK THE PICK. ITS THERE FOR A REASON, but yes you can run without it - just make sure all your hose routings are tied well back.
Also the shields around the lower headers - I've seen them nearly white hot. I think I can get a pic up tomorrow.
BB
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:56 am
by Dynamic Entry
That looks pretty serious.... I can't imagine my VF-11 getting that hot. I guess it is because I have a "in the city and WinterX, stop and go" mentality. My turbo doesn't really ever get a chance to be hit that hard that long.
BB is right, all turbos spill heat like crazy, I guess I should consider some sort of shielding and chimney action but for now I don't know how that will work since my intercooler has to go right ther
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:50 am
by SubaruNation
But you dont need it when its -20* outside!!
thats what it is here and things run very well...
i'll put it back on eventually im just lazy
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:41 am
by dscoobydoo
Turbo blanket.
When i ran the 18G hard, it was heat soaking the pass side of the intercooler bad.
So we opted for the turbo blanket and to wrap the downpipe.
This will make up for the lack of a chimney when you do the mods.
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:56 am
by smh0101
How the hell do you get a turbo that hot?!?!?!?
Somethin had to be wrong...
What turb was that? A VF11?
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:19 am
by BB
But you dont need it when its -20* outside!!
I'm trying to kind, but you are mistaken. There was snow on the ground when I took that picture. I dont care what kind of IC you run, Heat in the engine bay is bad.
That is the stock VF11 running stock boost on a hill climb here in BC with my co worker at the wheel and me riding "co driver".
Dude do some searches on turbo pics. The turbine approaches peak effenciency near red hot temps.
I can post another of a GT12 header and turbo the same colour. there's a wicked shot of a the BMW F1 turbo white hot.
The stock VF will glow if you sustain 100% throttle for any prolonged time - like a pass or hill climb.
Somethin had to be wrong...
I assure you nothing is wrong. Try a long sustained 4th gear hill climb, or driving your car hard with left foot technique on gravel for 5mins and pop the hood.
Props to "dscooby" - Do it. Some of the turbo blankets work very well - Header wrap has mixed results, but its better than nothing, so do it.
BB
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:33 am
by beatersubi
With a turbo blanket, do you not run the risk of something cracking(i.e. turbine housing)? Containing all that heat can't be good. It needs somewhere to go.
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:37 am
by Dynamic Entry
About the -20 thing. I am no scientist, but I was thinking today about how we are very self centered when we think about things like heat. To us -20 and +20 (centrigrade) is a huge swing, parka to t-shirt. But to a turbo that is heated up to hundreds of degrees -20 and +20 may very well be the same thing. Eh?
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:49 am
by BB
My understanding is that cracking is caused by massive differences in thermal expansion and contraction, ie, take a hot tubo and dump cold water on it, and yeah it may crack. Or poor design/installation.
The rate of heat influx in so big, that, the turbine housing pretty much matches the exhaust gas temp heating it regardless of what its wrapped in. So, the wrap keeps the head in the turbo where it actually can help, and away from the intake where it hurts.
Yeah+20 and -20 is chump change compared to 1200F isn't it? Good call on that one.
BB
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:05 am
by SubaruNation
BB wrote:But you dont need it when its -20* outside!!
I'm trying to kind, but you are mistaken. There was snow on the ground when I took that picture. I dont care what kind of IC you run, Heat in the engine bay is bad.
That is the stock VF11 running stock boost on a hill climb here in BC with my co worker onur at the wheel and me riding "co driver".
Dude do some searches on turbo pics. The turbine approaches peak effenciency near red hot temps.
I can post another of a GT12 header and turbo the same colour. there's a wicked shot of a the BMW F1 turbo white hot.
The stock VF will glow if you sustain 100% throttle for any prolonged time - like a pass or hill climb.
Somethin had to be wrong...
I assure you nothing is wrong. Try a long sustained 4th gear hill climb, or driving your car hard with left foot technique on gravel for 5mins and pop the hood.
Props to "dscooby" - Do it. Some of the turbo blankets work very well - Header wrap has mixed results, but its better than nothing, so do it.
BB
\
Great, i dont have an intercooler and i just climbed the continental divide here in MT at 90mph on my way to bozeman last weekend, so i dont know what you are trying to talk about.
any idiot knows that too much heat in the engine bay is bad, congratulations.
i was saying that when it's really cold outside, and you aren't racing F1, its not necessary, and you can live without it if you want.
thanks though.
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:02 am
by aspect
I think the turbo just got that hot because the driver is a crazy turkish guy.
Seriously guys, if you think your turbo doesn't start to glow when it's being run hard, then you need to spend a little more time on google image search. It's also not necessary to use a hood or headlights but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:38 am
by BB
I think the turbo just got that hot because the driver is a crazy turkish guy
correct!!!
And tonight - there were two VF-11's and two td04's all the same colour. No hills involved - but a lot of snow drifting.
BB
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:53 am
by justin the subie
ive seen my tdo5 coal red!!!! GLOWING!!!!
i thought i hurt the poor thing.. i know its not getting the air flow it should have, my plan was to make some sort of chimney after i do a front mount. i would imagine the more air blowing on the turbo the better!!!
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:50 pm
by Legacy777
justin the subie wrote:i would imagine the more air blowing on the turbo the better!!!
No, not really. It may be better for the surrounding equipment, but the turbine is driven in part by heat and the more heat that goes into the turbine, the more it will spin.
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:34 am
by justin the subie
makes perfect sence... i guess all i was thinking was if a guy made a big scoop and directed ALL the air to flow directly to the turbo (if you have a fmic) that it would be better than trying to split the scoop half to the turbo and half to the engine... but i really dont know.?. i do see how the turbo may not heat up enough if someone had a couple fans and a scoop blowing on it..
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:16 am
by LEAVINALEGACY93
ok so mixed reviews , to chimney or not to chimney
would it be possible to make some sort of shield out of turbo blanket ( to keep heat near turbo , but the rest of the engine bay would stay cooler).
what about makin a mr2 style snorkle , pvc pipe or something that will b ok to be 6-8'' above the downpipe, mabe mounted on passenger side of fire wall, coming up with 90degree bend to hood scoop , it would take up less room, or straight up have an exterior snorkle on passenger piller going to the engine bay, or hole in fender, i dunno if it would make any difference , or make any extra air flow in the bay?
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:43 pm
by Legacy777
We could analyze the crap out of this.....and come up with an answer.
The main thing I saw brought up was; how to bring the engine bay/intercooler temps down.
The two main modes of heat transfer is convective and radiative. Radiative heat transfer has a temperature term raised to the 4th power. So that is more then likely going to be the larger mode of heat transfer between the two.
If you can surround the turbo with a high radiative reflective material that should help lower the engine bay temps. It should in theory keep the turbo temps hotter, and improve turbine efficiency.
Ok....so that's all the theory. When it comes to real world application, I'd say you might see a slight decrease in underhood temps, but I doubt they'll be more then a few degrees.
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:17 pm
by n2x4
Legacy777 wrote:We could analyze the crap out of this
And so we shall!
If I had to guess why the PO removed it, I would say because he got tired of people asking him "where's the turbo?"
Is it going to hurt your car? Probably not. If it were my car, I'd come up with some form of a shield to cover the turbo. I couldn't see air blowing onto a hot chunk of metal being a very efficient means of cooling. You just want something to route all that hot air so it's not chilling out in your engine bay, cooking rubber hoses and drying out plastic, etc.
To make heat shield for the turbo, I did manage to drill out the rivets and reuse the bracket and with some tricky cutting I was able to reuse the chimney to cover the hotside of the turbo and some of the downpipe when I did my turbo swap. Granted, this doesn't direct the heat but does help shield the intercooler I added.
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:14 am
by boro
BB wrote:there's a wicked shot of a the BMW F1 turbo white hot.
HOLY GOD! and this sucker is n/a
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/161196/testing_f1/
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:42 pm
by Legacy777
They're also probably using methanol for fuel...
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:33 am
by smh0101
I couldnt get my turbo to get that hot after a very long run up a very steep hill... huh...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:11 am
by James614
Huh.... I never knew a stock turbo could handle getting red hot
Heck, I didn't know ANY motor could get WHITE HOT and still not expand/warp to the point of complete internal failure!
And to think I thought my old Jetta was gonna die when my oil temps broke 260
