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I own a 1990 Subaru Legacy LS AWD in a gentleman's tuxedo white. It's slightly rusted out, and needs about $2300 in parts listed below, and another 4-5000 in collision repairs. I just finished repairing the power antenna assembly problem.

It needs new suspension
new brakes
new front bumper (preferably one with built-in fogs from a later year)
new steering pump or steering rack (getting alot of torque bind)
new tires
new rear differential
New Front CV joints
new rear wheel bearings
new engine timing set
Rust repairs and collision($7000)
New carpet
Some new ABS trim, and outside trim pieces that are worn out
New driver's side visor (does not stay put)
new cruise control unit
New idle air valve assembly (rough bouncy idle and I don't know why)
Heads are leaking oil slighly; burns 1Litre of oil every 3,000KM
Banging sound when switching to reverse gear (I don't know it could be an engine mount?)

Work already completed:
Replaced Knock sensor (some power loss after I don't know why, car isn't as spunky)
New Tires
New fluids on transmission, crankcase, Transfercase, Transaxle, Radiator
New ABS Plastic parts Misc replaced
New Wheel Mud Guard to prevent dirt from getting into the airbox as the old one got smashed from getting airborne over jump in snow season on Kent Ave, Vancouver (courier work)
Cleaned the drain tube for the sunroof, to stop it from leaking.


Should I repair this car, or buy a new one? I'm really attached to this car and I don't see much in the way of improvements between mine and new Subarus. The new subaru legacy cars don't even come with auto up/down driver's side window switch.

I think I can do the majority of the work myself. The only thing I am unable to do is engine and bodywork because this car has major chunks of wheel well missing from it on all 4 corners.

It is my understanding that my engine is designed with a closed deck block so it should theoretically be good for another 500,000KM without issues.
Is there anyone else out there who owns the same car as me? I feel all alone that I am the only one with this model of Subaru Legacy

For those who don't know what torque bind is here's the scoop...

You are under heavy or full throttle and you are doing a slalom. You turn left hard, the right side squats down, now you quickly turn the steering wheel left, but to your amazement it won't go past deadcenter, so you are left with going only in a straight line unless you let off the gas. Sometimes this happens without much gas pedal at all. It's a common trait amongst AWD vehicles, and very dangerous.

I think I need a new rear differential because I hear a howling sound when I have alot of weight2the-rear+full throttle+hard steering input, and I'm sure it's not tires. What I usually do is throw the 4eat into 1st manual mode, trail brake into a left hander hard, and power out at 5000rpm. Basically I'm trying to get the car onto 3 wheels in a turn. It makes a very disturbing howling sound. Could it be other things such as wheel bearings or transmission clutch pack?

Also I just changed the fluids back there at 300,000KM, and its now 335,000KM on the odometer got the back differential checked and it's already dirty. It's also leaking...and there's alot of slack from worn out gears, so I get a noticable jarring to passengers when I am accelerating or decelerating. The screwed up primary fuel circuit (idle to 3000rpm) being all jumpy and rebellious to any civilized fluidity to throttle inputs eccentuates this differential problem.

The interior of my vehicle is 90% of showroom shape. I am in the middle of replacing the carpet because of an ICBC claim involving battery acid+carpet.

Repairing the car collision damage is my fault, and I would have lost that $5000 nomatter what vehicle I was driving at the time before I got sucker-braked by a van during a snowstorm. Sucker braking is when someone as a prank jumps on the brakes infront of you with not much time to react.

Cosmetics is important to me such as the collision damage, the rust, the carpet and trim, because I want to have a car that looks presentable and smells good inside, not like a dirty old sock. I want to take passengers in this car. I do not want to spend $20-50K on a new Subaru. I see no point as the engines are NOT more fuel efficient than the engine I have now. I am puzzled how they tweaked the engine to get 170HP NA instead of 130 and I want to get that out of my engine too if that's at all possible. I'm not into a new noisy snorkle setup that sucks in mud/rainwater.

I bought this car because I live in mountainous territory with snow/bad weather. It's a lighter option than having a truck/SUV and lower CG than a truck. It's also a luxury car that I scored for less than $1,800 CAD

It's good to have this car because the SCAIRCARE fees are cheaper, the insurance is MUCH CHEAPER, and if something should happen I'm not down and out MegaBUCKS as if I purchased and are making car payments on a new one.

Also with this old car I can experiment with modifications such as a new Hydrogen/Hydroxy Fuel system.

I'm doing my part for the environment by filling all 4 tires to 40PSI and using 5-30W oil.

I use Lucus Oil in the crankcase and tranny/diffs to prolong their life

We all have the same car, pretty much.

I think it all depends on the collision damage. The car's not worth $4000, I'd say. Certainly not $7000. But if some or all of the damage is just cosmetic, you can just not bother with fixing that part.

You can do a lot of the repairs you're describing cheaply if you make use of used parts from newer Subarus. Like get a WRX takeoff suspension. And get a set of stock wheels from a newer 5x100 Subaru and then put on a takeoff set of brakes from a newer 5x100 Subaru too. Some of this stuff you can find for sale by other Legacy Central members in the Parts Shed forum. And stuff like the power steering pump you can just use a junkyard part, since they don't wear out very fast.

Torque bind -- what exactly do you mean?

Why do you think you need a new rear differential?

If that were my car, I would probably get a new one. My car is a 1992, and it cost $2000 when I got it four years ago. So if anything major were to happen to it even if it was only $1000 dollars in damage, I would probably get a new one.

Unless there is some other reason why you want to keep it.

i have the same, 90, LS, AWD, white.

i have found keeping it up fairly cheap actually, i have "fixed" most of the worser rust spots on it myself, didnt cost me a thing because i used paint that was 5 years old. i took out the only dent with a hammer and a piece of wood. the sunroof leaked but luckily for me there is an article on here about how to fix that problem, for free (except the price of the silicone to seal it).

if you did the work yourself, i think you could do it all below or maybe just a little over $1k, with junkyard parts and parts you get from people through the "parts shed" or different Subaru forums.
sure it would not be in "mint" condition, which sounds like what you are trying to do, but it will be as mint as a 18yo car gets

is it necessary that the car be in show room shape? i am missing my sun visors, the upholstery is dirty, wheels have road rash, and there are lots of scratches and parts of the suspension are worn out. but it more than does what i need it too. over the years i have put more money in than the car is worth, but i dont think i could ever get rid of the car unless it had unrepairable damage that didnt allow me to safely drive it.

yeah wow trash it

its time for a new car.

Um yeah, unless you have a turbo legacy, which you dont, you have an open deck block...

But its a subie... very tough indeed!!

Sounds like you got your hand full dude... But the decision is yours!!

It's probably better if you just reply to this thread rather than editing your original post, ripplesouth. It makes it easier to see what new info you're adding and it also makes the thread show up as newly-posted-to.

What you're describing as torque bind is different from what that term conventionally refers to among Subaru circles.

I've never heard of the steering wheel locking being a common trait among all-wheel-drive vehicles. What does AWD have to do with that? But, yes, that's super dangerous!

New Subarus have an engine that's fairly significantly different from yours. With modifications you can increase your engine's output but you have some handicaps to overcome if you want to match the new engines: displacement, compression ratio, engine management...

A lot of that jarring to passengers is probably from worn out rubber rather than worn out steel. You could probably reduce a lot of it by replacing or upgrading the motor and transmission mounts. A rear subframe lock kit may help too.

Idling problems on these cars aren't uncommon. Read up on other threads about it and see what you can figure out. You may find that all it takes is a replacement temperature sensor or IAC valve.

But it sounds to me like you want a car that you can abuse hard but that will also look pretty. Whether it's this car or any other, that kind of thing never comes cheap. So, in that case, I say fix this car up.

Oh, also, I'm not convinced you're doing your car any good with Lucas additives. The idea of oil additives doesn't sit well with me in general -- if those ingredients were so good, why didn't oil manufacturers put them in the oil?

But, also, take a look at this informal study:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

One thing about this car I hate is that there is too much lag in the AWD as it transitions from FWD to AWD 50/50 split

And yes It's a Subaru which is why I have kept it despite it's character.

you can fix that by locking it up manually with a switch.
i did that with my car and i leave it on all the time if the roads are snow or ice covered. you will never have any type of traction problem after that, unless you get in to deep.

Hey Murphy... You could get a rear lsd... Then you really could go anywhere!

Yes this car is a beater, and I would risk driving it hard, and breaking parts if need be. I would never drive a new Subaru the way I drive this one. In my opinion the transmission and engine are overbuilt and can handle alot more HP/torque than Stock 130HP. I do not feel worried about either grenading in the near or long-term future.

My ownership plans is to have one Beater Car (currently owned) and one new one. At the moment I do need this car to look decent to take passengers but in the future as my job situation improves (we are in the Organic Food Distribution and Wholesaling business) I'll be able to commit to the newer car. But I am holding out for something along the lines of a diesel electric 6CYL 2.5L Boxer Engine that does 40MPG or better!

All cars IMHO should come with Carbon Fibre Doors, firewalls, trunk, hood, rocker panels+floor pan (to prevent crushed feet+legs in high speed crash same way F1 Race cars are). Crush zones out of traditional steel should be anything outside the Cab, such as the trunk frame, and the engine bay to absorb as much energy as possible. Fewer injuries from side impacts, and less cab penetration from things like Big Rigs would be possible.

A carbon fibre Diesel electric Hybrid Boxer engine subaru would be the reason I would step up to a new car. At the moment My car is just good enough.

vrg3 wrote:It's probably better if you just reply to this thread rather than editing your original post, ripplesouth. It makes it easier to see what new info you're adding and it also makes the thread show up as newly-posted-to.

What you're describing as torque bind is different from what that term conventionally refers to among Subaru circles.

I've never heard of the steering wheel locking being a common trait among all-wheel-drive vehicles. What does AWD have to do with that? But, yes, that's super dangerous!

New Subarus have an engine that's fairly significantly different from yours. With modifications you can increase your engine's output but you have some handicaps to overcome if you want to match the new engines: displacement, compression ratio, engine management...

A lot of that jarring to passengers is probably from worn out rubber rather than worn out steel. You could probably reduce a lot of it by replacing or upgrading the motor and transmission mounts. A rear subframe lock kit may help too.

Idling problems on these cars aren't uncommon. Read up on other threads about it and see what you can figure out. You may find that all it takes is a replacement temperature sensor or IAC valve.

But it sounds to me like you want a car that you can abuse hard but that will also look pretty. Whether it's this car or any other, that kind of thing never comes cheap. So, in that case, I say fix this car up.

vrg3 wrote:Oh, also, I'm not convinced you're doing your car any good with Lucas additives. The idea of oil additives doesn't sit well with me in general -- if those ingredients were so good, why didn't oil manufacturers put them in the oil?

But, also, take a look at this informal study:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

Nowadays, I don't use synthetic oil in my car. I just can't afford it.

Who gave this guy all his misinformation on Subarus?

CF is spendy, and if you'd like to have an affordable car that's sturdy enough for daily use, you won't want it to be mostly carbon fibre. If I was going to pay a maserati price, I'd expect to get a maserati, not a fully carbon-ed mid-nineties subaru legacy.

tris91ricer wrote:Who gave this guy all his misinformation on Subarus?

CF is spendy, and if you'd like to have an affordable car that's sturdy enough for daily use, you won't want it to be mostly carbon fibre. If I was going to pay a maserati price, I'd expect to get a maserati, not a fully carbon-ed mid-nineties subaru legacy.

If it was not clear I am saying that NEW cars should all come with some CF built in to save fuel, save lives, and improve performance. I would never CF my car.

Carbon fiber is hella expensive. I honestly don't see any mainstream manufactuer using it intensively anytime in the foreseable future, except for halo cars like future versions of the Nissan GT-R, BMW M cars, etc. It may be hugely beneficial, but most cars (even a lot of luxury/expensive cars) are built with a large deal of cost-cutting in mind, and carbon fiber is kind of the exact opposite of that..... Not to mention that we would no longer have our beloved $9999 Kia Rio!

What alternatives to Carbon Fibre are there for materials that reap the same benefits as carbon fibre?

James614 wrote:Carbon fiber is hella expensive. I honestly don't see any mainstream manufactuer using it intensively anytime in the foreseable future, except for halo cars like future versions of the Nissan GT-R, BMW M cars, etc. It may be hugely beneficial, but most cars (even a lot of luxury/expensive cars) are built with a large deal of cost-cutting in mind, and carbon fiber is kind of the exact opposite of that..... Not to mention that we would no longer have our beloved $9999 Kia Rio!

It might be expensive but that is also why I said I would have it on the NEW subaru when the time/money comes around for it.

Money Money money!

At work we sell Organic Food for wholesale prices. We are growing so fast we cannot keep up with the workload!

You're talking good 6-figure money for CF. It's really not conducive to mass mfg. right now. Fiberglass has many of the benefits of CF, but is not as strong.

Your car sounds like the Ghostbuster ambulance when Ray buys it and rattles off the 'few' things it needs. Why can't you get another first generation Legacy? You could get one in much better shape fore far less.

And 40+ mpg only requires the turbodiesel Subaru is introducing here in a year or so (and that's in the overweight new Legacy, I'd like to see what it could do in a sub 2000#, low drag vehicle with higher gearing). The UK car is getting nearly 50 (imperial) mpg, which is low 40's in NA gallons.

i doubt you could bolt it into an EJ series car, the turbo is on the bottom of the motor for one thing, so there might be allot of changes in the mounting locations
the Imperial gallon is 1.2 US gallons, i think they measure mpg with US gallons over there

In my case, it's not going in a Subaru or really even a car, but for a Subaru instal, it would definitely require a modified crossmember - it's about 2.5" shorter than an EJ, although the one they'll use on the diesel may fit our cars ... does anyone know if the new Legacy's engine crossmember fits our old chassis? If it does, then the diesel crossmember, should fit as well. I'd like to know this as, it may be an option I'll look into for my 1990 wagon as well.

UK uses Imperial gallons, or at least Car Magazine does. That's why the mileage claims of their cars seem absurdly high even for the same models/engines sold here. A US magazine estimated low 40's (combined, I believe).

I'm not so sure that's such a good idea...the diesel engines produce ALOT of torque at low RPM... can those old gasoline chassis take that added stress?

I'm fairly certain that diesel chassis are built alot stronger and stiffer to handle the torque generated by the diesel engines...

I know my 1990 Rustbucket couldn't handle it without something sheering...

Our "old gasoline chassis" is actually largely the same as the current GD Impreza (not the '08, though). So that's not an issue, as the diesel doesn't make insane torque (check out Audi's V12 TDI, THAT would be a concern!), and the cars already handle 300hp/300ft-lbs without extraneous bracing. If you wanna track it, you'd be good to look at bracing regardless of what engine you're running

i have uh...dreams about the audi R8 V12...not sure if it's a TDI but oh my god is that car HAWT