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Well, mostly research. Somebody once told me that expecting parents are the most well read group of people in America. Well, house hunters have got to be second.

After deciding not to jump into something we probably shouldn't 'choose' to afford over the last few years, this current 'housing crisis' has somehow worked to our advantage. So, after years of renting in overpriced SoCal, The SO and myself have managed to get a home into escrow. So basically the last 3 months have been nothing but reading, searching, research and viewing homes. I never would have imagined how draining the whole process actually was. Glad it's over. Unless it drops out, which seems to happen alot these days too.

Now, we just have to actually close and move. No more stress, right?

In case anybody is interested, pics of the property can be found here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N ... 812436630/

It's a bit over 1/2 acre. 2200 square feet. 15 months ago it sold for $575,000. Our agreed upon price with the bank is $330,000. They started at $375,000. Yes, its a repo. Almost everything down here is. It seems like 'normal' people just are not selling, and I can see why.

I got everything I wanted (family room, 3 car garage, storage (barn), and tons of room to build my own personal junkyard). She got what she wanted too (office to do her masters program, family room, spare bedroom, landscaped) . Only complaint is the family room could have been a bit bigger. But the spa, mini orchard and greenhouse are a nice bonus. Kids are gonna love the place.

Who likes grapefruit?

Some of the others we looked at, but passed for various reasons. http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/collections/

With a bit of luck you should see me back in the rallycrosses shortly after it closes.

Now....off to see it qualifies for a transfer of my FIOS! Can't go back to slow ass cable ISP.

Talk about a bubble! 575 to 330 is alot. That place would be like $210 here, depending on sq ft and location.

People are saying "oh, the crisis we have". As long as there's smart, opportunistic people like yourself, there ain't no crisis. It really is a buyer's market now, as long as the banks are willing to lend to you. I hope the same happens to oil soon, but with the summer season coming up, I don't really know what will happen.

Good luck! And I hope you don't suffer the last owner's fate.

ya ditto that's badass!
way to go in the researching, that a hell of a deal

Well, here in Southern California prices are still dropping. I'm not sure if this particular house would go down much further, but if all you wanted was a basic tract home (which 90% of the market is) you can get almost 50% off from the peak in late 2006. Around here 1/2 acre is considered a large property. The city even zones that lot as 'estate sized'.

I really do feel sorry for the people that are losing thier homes, but IMO it was pretty dumb for most of them to 1) buy a home that was overpriced and out of thier income range, and 2) to take out an adjustable rate mortage JUST so they could afford said home.

Here is SoCal, it was common for people making $50K a year or so to buy $400K+ homes. (because, basically, that's all there was) Lending guidelines that have been in place for decades were modified to allow these types of purchases to happen. All based on the crazy appreciation of real estate. It literally was a self-feeding monster. Common sense should have told us that such a appreciation rate was not sustainable. I guess my SO and I were right. Now we get to reap the benifits of waiting.

Wow, houses are cheap there (or I guess that bubble has REALLY burst). Good deal. That would probably still be about what the original asking price was here.

Property here hasn't dropped much. I've lost maybe 5% realistically, but should make out on the re-fi with the property being evaluated for more than we paid.

PhyrraM wrote:Well, here in Southern California prices are still dropping. I'm not sure if this particular house would go down much further, but if all you wanted was a basic tract home (which 90% of the market is) you can get almost 50% off from the peak in late 2006. Around here 1/2 acre is considered a large property. The city even zones that lot as 'estate sized'.

I really do feel sorry for the people that are losing thier homes, but IMO it was pretty dumb for most of them to 1) buy a home that was overpriced and out of thier income range, and 2) to take out an adjustable rate mortage JUST so they could afford said home.

Here is SoCal, it was common for people making $50K a year or so to buy $400K+ homes. (because, basically, that's all there was) Lending guidelines that have been in place for decades were modified to allow these types of purchases to happen. All based on the crazy appreciation of real estate. It literally was a self-feeding monster. Common sense should have told us that such a appreciation rate was not sustainable. I guess my SO and I were right. Now we get to reap the benifits of waiting.

yeah, it wasn't ALL the people's fault. there were numerous Stupid decisions made in the financial sectors that led to this.

evolutionmovement wrote:Wow, houses are cheap there (or I guess that bubble has REALLY burst). .....

I think Southern California was one of the most overpriced places to start with. Home values were far outpacing average wages. I believe this caused a much larger 'bubble' and a much larger 'pop' than in many other areas.

I'd be back in Wisconsin if my (and hers) roots weren't so deep here in Cali. Plus the twins are in school now and I know what it's like to move around as a child. Yep, I'm here for a while. Hence, why I looked for a (relatively) large home and lot.

Just a testament to how overinflated the prices were in the first place. And its all people's own fault for biting off more than they could chew. Were the financial institutions correct in their morals whilst pushing these rediculous loans? Thats questionable. But since when does a buyer not need to be aware of what he's getting himself into? Now, since enough of us (them) are in the same boat, its the fault of the institution and uncle sam's obligation to bail us out?

Its all back-asswards.

Capitalism > Socialism.

The problem is that nothing is isolated. Get Eastern spiritual if you want, but everything is connected - if we let these assholes sink, they take the economy with them. It's likely cheaper for us to bail them out. And they're almost guaranteed not to learn a lesson either way. The solution is to discourage these people from breeding, have schools that actually educate, and not pay morons enough money that they could even think about buying something so expensive. Then there would be no bubbles, or none of consequence, as there was before these lenders starting offering extortionist loans and morons started taking them.

The loan companies and banks are just as guilty - my sister's idiot friend got a $260k house and she makes $13/hr. How could any lender not be responsible for their obvious inevitable loss? Oh, they don't give a shit because they know they'll sell the loan right away to a big institution that doesn't bother to check every loan they buy in bulk and then the lender pockets the quick profit, buys some status-named crap or drugs, or hookers, and declares bankruptcy (which we also pay for one way or another) when the inevitable house of cards collapses.

Welcome to the American Dream - the result of the greed of unchecked Capitalism. That's what I mean by schools - people are taught by marketing departments and the homogenizing preferences of it and the government they control that self worth and identity comes from shit you buy (Indians handing over Manhattan for trinkets - this has been going on forever) and own versus what your peers buy/own. Corruption is inherent in any singular system. The natural divisions among humanity should be used in a positive manner as a check and balance against each others' philosophy, not used as to keep people apart so that they may easily be controlled as in the present system (and nearly all before it). Humans will never evolve if they don't discover this en masse. Were I an optimist, I would think that possibly, maybe, this housing deal would teach people a lesson that could lead them to this discovery. But I'm not because years of observation has shown me that people enjoy their ignorance because they are lazy, weak, and fearful. Changing their perspective and going against the obvious lies everyone accepts for the comfort of it all is too hard and scary.

There's got to be another planet or lifeform somewhere for beings who've made the next step. I really hope it's not those guys cutting off cattle junk out west in what is probably part of some great interstellar frat prank.

How is it the bank's fault when someone takes out a loan they can't afford? The masses won't evolve. The upper echlons, or higher classes, will and should go on learning and improving. As long as the masses are kept content with possesions or the quest for happiness or american idol, and the system can be made to work so that there is perceived equality and opportunity, I don't see why it can't work.

A lendee doesn't write up a loan, the lender does. If someone came to me who is in massive debt, makes no money, and is broke, and asked to buy my car who's fault is it if I give it to him in good faith he'll make payments on it later? If I was a loan shark, I could break the guy's legs when he doesn't pay, but that doesn't get me my money. It's just bad business and any 7-figure CEO should certainly know that and what they allowed to happen is, frankly, criminal. If I was a rich shareholder I'd be putting out a contract on the guy's head from my offshore island.

Yes, the guy getting the loan is an idiot (my sister's friend is a friggin' idiot), but so are the banks for putting short-term gains over intelligence. It takes to to tango. Now the banks that just ended up with the bad loans after buying them off mortgage lenders I could cut a little slack - yes, they should be looking into their purchases better, but the resources required to investigate every loan for falsification (like in my sister's friend's case - they HAD to have made shit up to give her the loan as her mortgage alone is almost 100% of her income) is just too great impractical, and should not be necessary. There's a serious lack of accountability on the end of the lenders who turn over these bad loans knowing they'll immediately be bought up and become someone else's problem. The idiot homeowner loses their house and likely all their assets trying to keep it, but the lenders who are at least equally as culpable can dump their personal cash into untouchable accounts, declare bankruptcy for the business, and walk due to lenient laws which are conducive to this type of behavior (which, I think, will change). People shouldn't do these things, but they will and it's just as much your fault leaving a door open for a criminal and allowing yourself to be a victim as it is the criminal (within reason, of course, for my analogy - there's a reasonable expectation of safety in a civilization that taxes pay for). Anyways, there should be real criminal penalties for these negligent lenders. We throw bank robbers who take a measly couple grand in jail for pretty long terms and law enforcement endangers the lives of civilians to capture them (two civilians killed recently during a high-speed chase with a bank robber in GA, for instance) as well as expending far more money in the process to catch them than any bank robber averages in a raid, yet these criminals that steal MILLIONS walk with little to nothing. I think they should be executed, but not by the process we use today as the death penalty system in this country is terrible.

Idiots will always want what they can't have and it's up to a seller to make sure his end of the deal can be held up by the buyer.

The problem with the upper class 'evolving' is that it's a farce - monastic systems don't work. The weak and stupid are born to the smart and strong and the contrary holds true as well. The masses are eventually capable of learning things - marketing and even politically acceptable thinking has proven that. We just need to market something real.

Well, we can thank the "educated" people in congress for forcing mortgage companies to offer loans to people that shouldn't get them because of their financial situation, in the name of "fairness". Equal Opportunity my ass. If you don't qualify for a certain loan, it's not racist, or bigoted, or BLAH BLAH BLAH. It's just not feasable to lend money to someone that doesn't fit the criteria. Should I qualify for a $300k loan? Hell no! I make $12.50 an hour. But if stupid people are given enough rope to hang themselves, because the "morally superior" ones in government believe we should all be given the same amount of rope, no matter our ability to use it, is it any wonder why there's so many swinging from trees?

Now they think I should spend MY (tax) MONEY to subsidize their stupidity. How is this "fairness"???????????????? Riddle me that!!!

That's the rub.

While I agree with much of what you say, your forgetting one thing.

As much as it pains me to say it, the masses are always right. It's the way society works. It's funny. While almost every individual within a society has some personal comment, gripe, concern or hatred about thier 'system', it still remains that the masses are always right.

That presents us with a choice. Be 'right' but miserable by going against the grain and fighting/vocalizing for all that is good and the way it should be. Or, accept the system (to an extent) but greatly increase your happiness by working within it. I suppose the third choice is to isolate yourself, but then you essentially are choosing to make your voice irrelavent.

Niether choice is right, niether is wrong. It took me most of my adult life to reach that conclusion. A buddy of mine from work over-uses a certain phrase that seems oddly appropriate for this conversation.....

It is what it is.

They need a smillie for doomed acceptance.

I always liked Vonnegut's, "And so it goes..."

arg i missed out on this one!

steve got it done though. like always

What part of being a lemming marching toward the edge of the cliff with all the other lemmings makes it right.

Steve- So whats the answer? Do we, as responsible for our own actions and consious buyers, bail out, with our hard-fought tax money, the always-right masses? Or do we start letting our gov't be our common sense? And if the latter, where does that road end? I'm of the opinion that there exists an unacceptable, yet strangely sympathetic, lack of personal accountability in current society. i.e. We've been conditioned to believe its the fault of someone else that we spill hot coffee in our laps while leaving the drive-thru.

Maybe I'm a pessimist.

Whatever the cheaper solution is would be the one I'd choose. Ideally, these people should lose their houses (as they are) and the greedy people on the other end should have their assets seized as well (to partly fund the cost to the economy for the rest of us) if it can be proved that they committed fraud in the course of their lendings.

As far as the bailout choice, I think the most logical solution is just to freeze the variable rates at the introductory level the lendees had been able to pay. So the banks don't get all the money they planned on with the stupidity of the introduction of these loans. They wouldn't be getting it in most cases anyway as the properties would go into foreclosure and they'd be a complete loss (in many places properties are sitting vacant after foreclosure, open for vandalization and reclamation by nature - a no-win for anybody). Of course, the idiots who found it too hard to read an f'n loan agreement when they bought the house would get a break, but the cost to the rest of us in terms of economic spending, increased crime, decline in housing value, etc. would be far less. So I suppose it's a choice between trying to teach these idiots a lesson they won't learn (cutting off our noses to spite our faces) or cutting us all a break. I suppose a society that encourages such shortsightedness, greed, and glorifies ignorance should have to reap the rewards for its actions, but I really don't see it being of any more benefit than one of a smugness on the part of the rest of us while we're sitting bleeding as well due to the connected nature of civilization.

The reason I think the government needs to do this instead of the banks is that the banks can't just all decide to standardize loan rate freezes on their own. Some banks already don't want to acknowledge that in some cases they are letting people stay in their houses after they've stopped paying their mortgages instead of foreclosing as they're overwhelmed with so many foreclosures and the cost to maintain the vacant property (or auction at huge loss in a saturated market) would be higher than kicking the residents out. From a business stand-point, I can't blame them in the least, but on a similar vein, they can't just freeze loan rates at to the introductory terms on their own (for loans that haven't yet gone beyond their introductory rates). Who wants to be the first to flinch on that? On the other hand, I don't know how it works if they were going to revert to old rates on loans that have already gone beyond their introductory rates in terms of their relationship to the Fed and the banks' own borrowing rates. That might be the part that costs the rest of us, but surely it's the cheapest way out that I've thought of or seen.

banks and government are separate for many reasons.

It is the fed's responsibility to oversee the banks and control the money supply in the various markets, and manipulate the Rates ($supply) when necessary.

I know i don't want to live in a country like Zimbabwe, with Robert Mugabe as a leader.

Banks constantly sell their debt to other banks/ collection institutions to make ca$h and support themselves.
overnight loans, etc.

plus, banks can not fail. they are insured (100%) by the fed.
Just that fact SHOULD lead them to greater responsibility for their actions, but they didn't have any incentive to at the time (that i know of).
pretty much neglect and irresponsibility are what i see

The Fed is run by private individuals. Don't fool yourself - the government doesn't control the businesses, the businesses control the government. At best, they're a mediator between the businesses that all vie for control. Even our schools are set up to train soulless cubicle monkeys to inhabit their offices and company marketing teaches kids their "values". People have no problem selling their souls for the money they've been taught from the beginning is more valuable. At least for a little while, until they're old, they've seen they've accomplished nothing of value, and they break down or start over with something they probably should have begun years earlier. The most content people I've known are the ones that aren't rich, but do what they enjoy doing, without exception that being something of discernible value (not pushing paper somewhere or trading imaginary money).

INTERMISSION TIME.

Hey it's my thread afterall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Fc9lvRMy0

If you check out the lyrics, you'll see were still on topic though.

This one goes out to Steve. I think you'll enjoy it.

For the lazy:

They say you're stupid
That you're too young to vote
They say you'll swallow anything
That they shove down your throat

They say you can't think
That you haven't got a brain
That you're just there to listen
That you're just being trained

CHORUS
There's something inside your head
There's something inside your head
There's something inside your head
There's something inside your head

They say you lost the ability to even think
That your tiny little brain
Slipped down the kitchen sink

They say that you'll buy anything
That they turn your way
That you'll listen to everything
That they decide to play

CHORUS
Grey matter grey matter ooh . . .
Grey matter grey matter ooh . . .
Grey matter grey matter ooh . . .
Grey matter grey matter ooh . . .

BRIDGE
I think you like it--like it
To be told what to do--isn't that true
I think you're better--better--better off
Stone cold dead--without your head

They say you're stupid
That you're too young to vote
They say you'll swallow anything
That they shove down your throat

If they say lie down, you'll do it
If they say--buy it now--you'll do it
If they say--turn around--you'll do it
If they say--hit the ground--you'll do it
If they say--bite the big weenie--you'll do it
If they say--wasn't that good--you'll do it
If they say--bend over baby--you'll do it
If they say--take it and like it--you'll do it


Now back to our regularly scheduled debate.......

Watch out for the RIAA! I cut the few short song quotes out of my book to avoid their harassment.

evolutionmovement wrote:The Fed is run by private individuals. Don't fool yourself - the government doesn't control the businesses, the businesses control the government. At best, they're a mediator between the businesses that all vie for control. Even our schools are set up to train soulless cubicle monkeys to inhabit their offices and company marketing teaches kids their "values". People have no problem selling their souls for the money they've been taught from the beginning is more valuable. At least for a little while, until they're old, they've seen they've accomplished nothing of value, and they break down or start over with something they probably should have begun years earlier. The most content people I've known are the ones that aren't rich, but do what they enjoy doing, without exception that being something of discernible value (not pushing paper somewhere or trading imaginary money).

ya, that's what i was trying to say.
Federal Open Market committee is what i was looking for at the time
im getting better

& screw the RIAA, they're going downhill anyway because they can't sell cd's and refuse change in all forms.

ignorance is great! lol