legacycentral bbs

well heres what i have planed for now.

this is what i have:

stock block with stock internals.
ej20g heads
565 sti injectors
2.5L intake
N/A fuel rails.
TBE
Front mount Intercooler

this is what i need:

VF22 turbo
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Link stand alone
Cam gears
More aggressive cam's. maybe 272's by JUN
duel valve springs, titanium retainers
Polish the ports

want lots of power dammit! if this set up wont build the power i want. then ill get bigger fuel injectors and a gt32 rotated twin scroll kit and build the motor with forged internals.

Why a link and not a Power FC?
Why a VF22 and not a TD05H?
What 565 STI Injectors? 565 will likely not be enough to push the VF22 to it's limits
Why the EJ20G heads over your stock heads? Nothing is wrong with the SOHC Subaru heads from what I have read

You definitely don't need more aggressive cams. I would just throw that idea out of the window.

I would say why not go with a FP Green if you really want some power out of a decent turbo. That or the TD05H, both can be fully rebuilt unlike the VF22 which is a use once and throw away turbo. I would use nothing less than Nismo 740cc Injectors on your build.
What 2.5 intake? The NA EJ25D manifold or something else?


So my suggestions:
Power FC
Ebay FMIC, Maybe the GC8 will work?
TBE
TD05H or FP Green
740cc or more side feeds with some rails


If I built what I just suggestioed VS what you suggested I would smoke your VF22 and cost thousands less.

Those Jun cams cost like $1000...

555BCTurbo wrote:Those Jun cams cost like $1000...

Yeah exactly and everyone that has been around Subarus for more than a minute knows that you can make 450 WHP without ever touching a cam.

Also I don't want you to think I don't like your ideas. I am just trying to make you think about your decisions and choices. It helps make you critically evaluate your mods.

You could get a parts car for the money you would spend on those cams. But with that said, I still want to know how much of a difference they make, if any.

Xephyr, who used to run the stock DOHC Ej25 heads in his car, bought a set of those Jun cams. This was when he first upgraded his Ej22t to an Ej257 block. He was running a custom Garret turbo from TEC at the time. He made 387whp with the stock DOHC Ej25 cams.

Then he installed the Jun cams. He picked up about 20whp, and IIRC it was the first time he broke 400whp. However he hated it. He lost his bottom end and the car wasn't worth a damn in the 3000-4000rpm range. He literally left the cams in there less than a week. Those Jun cams now reside in an NA DOHC EJ25 with a 7500 rpm redline and are great for that application.

Shortly after he went back to stock DOHC Ej25 cams, he removed his AWIC set up and converted his car to a FMIC. He picked up ALL of the power he had gotten from the cams just from the better cooling and was back up over 400whp on stock DOHC EJ25 NA camshafts.

So, this brings us back to your build. What's your number? How much power are you looking to make? Do you have the money to support that kind of power? Xephyr runs a Modena dogbox in his car that cost him $18K to put together. He rebuilds it once every two years. He got tired of replacing stock trannies back when he ran 350whp and was tearing them up every 6 months or so. And this man is a mature driver. He races the car but he knows how to drive. He's not your run of the mill trasher. And the tranny is just the tip of the iceberg. You've got to pay to play once you breach the 300whp barrier. So, my biggest quesiton to you is what's your number? Once we have that, we can talk about what you need to make that happen. Until I know that, I am just throwing out random thoughts like everyone else...

keirnna wrote:Why a link and not a Power FC?

The new Link systems are much more thorough than models of the past. Consequently, they have a ton more features now and processing power than the Power FC. The G2/G3 platform is especially versatile now.

Why the EJ20G heads over your stock heads? Nothing is wrong with the SOHC Subaru heads from what I have read

The 22T heads are quite restrictive. Set one next to a newer DOHC head (or a phase 2 single cam head) and you'll laugh at the difference in just the valves. I'd say my 22T heads, with pretty hot cams btw, are holding me back 60-80hp on my GT3071R. There is a ball of torque in the midrange though, which is what the 22T heads were designed for.



All the valvetrain parts for the 20g heads might be a bit on the futile side. They have HLA's, I believe. If you want to rev high you'll need something with solid buckets. Save your duckets for a nicer turbo and larger injectors. But that brings me to different point...


As Matt is saying, drivetrain is a major part of the Subaru equation. A clutch and transmission can cost as much as what you have into your motor. I don't have a car payment, I have a tranny payment. PPG definitely has sturdy but more affordable tranny options than the Modena setup, but its still in the $4-5k region, if not more with install. The 6mt is a nice option, but do have to row the hell out of it, which is less than ideal for the street/strip.

Along the same lines as Matt and Dan... conisder the EJ25 DOHC heads.

EJ20G are HLA and should be limited to about 6500rpm, they also have large 56cc chambers that dont match up well with the stock turbo pistons, the CR will be quite low.

The EJ25 DOHC heads have 46cc chamber (EJ22T SOHC are 40cc from what I remember). They also have a solid valve train, they are the shim over bucket type, which some say is not as good as the shim under bucket at high RPM, but still should be fine up to 7000/7500 range.

Gary

EJ20G heads limited to 6500 RPM? Are you serious? They cam from the factory with a reline of 7000 and a fuel cut a few hundred RPMs higher than that.

^^ i will agree very much to this, dam heads. i am useing them right now as a basic set up.

ej20g heads do make some good power, but for me i dont think so, my ej20k heads would hit 8000rpm and make power right up to that no word of a lie, night and day.

keirnna wrote:EJ20G heads limited to 6500 RPM? Are you serious? They cam from the factory with a reline of 7000 and a fuel cut a few hundred RPMs higher than that.

Its not that they cannot rev that high, its just that HLA's struggle to maintain valve lift at higher rpms. I see it in my 22T heads above 6500rpm. My fuel curve is nice and smooth, but above 6500, the AFR just tanks from the valves not opening as far as they should.

whoa lots of replys already. this is awesome .


ok, the reason im going to use the ej20g heads is because there better flowing heads over the 22t heads. plus i got them for free.

reason number two, on cams is have you ever looked at the cam lobes on the 20g's? there quite flat. hence more agressive cam's. but we'll see if ill even need some better cams when the heads are on there.

vf22 turbo is what i was thinking on using for this set up very good mid to high range turbo. but as i talked to a good friend of mine, he said that it cant. so i dont know if im going to get it. probably not.

the numbers i was looking at where 350whp.

now around, 50 less.

fire away!

92ss satinsvoice wrote:
Reason number two: on cams is have you ever looked at the cam lobes on the 20gs? They're quite flat; hence more aggressive cams.

That just means that the cam is longer duration...


Sounds like you need to do some reading on how cams work...

555BCTurbo wrote:
That just means that the cam is longer duration...


Sounds like you need to do some reading on how cams work...

ya my minds not workin at the wee bit hours. you can slap me nick. lol


its been a while sense ive talked or read anything about cams. so yes i need to hit the books again.

Sounds like the 20g heads should work just fine for your goals. Besides, its hard to beat freebies.


When would you expect a VF22 to spool? I'm not too up on the IHI turbos. I'm guessing before 3500? hmmmm.



I guess it depends on what you really want to spend. A TD06-20G would get you around the 300whp mark on pump gas. You'd need larger injectors though. 565's are a bit on the small side. If you are going to use the NA fuel rails, maybe you should look into some SR20 injectors? Venom and Deatchwerks have pretty reasonable options. You can get some 1000cc units for under $400. If you are getting a standalone its all gravy anyways.

yes around that range. i went and bought a td05 16g from a member on this board.

well the 565's might sound small but my friend David is running them with a 50trim turbo at 20-22psi and has great AFR's. so i know they have the potential for making power.


im still waiting on parts witch is pissing me off alot. what i was going to do about the drivetrain is. just keep buying n/a 5spd's there $150 bucks a pop. i could buy one a week if i need to. untill i get tired of braking them.

for a clutch i went and bought a ACT solid disc with a heavy duty PP.

we'll see if i want more power after i get the car running again. i drove it one last time before i disabled it, ill just say that going from a 90hp honda with no balls to my est 250hp... scared me.