legacycentral bbs

Don't worry, its not mine. I still prefer a Legacy. The owner doesn't know much about repairing cars (he's a mechanical engineer). Its the same car I did the headgasket for on thanksgiving (if you remember my post about that).

Still working out some details but I was able to drive the car. Its so fast that is essentially unusable. Take an 05 STI and reduce its weight by 500 pounds and that is essentially what I've made.

Random pictures I had on hand -

I can't believe you did all this in la like 10 minutes from where I live. I would have liked to help or at least hang out.

Are you still in socal or did you head back already?

I'm still here and sorting the car out. There is a long story about two shops. One is very very bad and one is extremely good. For example one burnt out the original ECU and the other let me borrow one for free.

The radiator sprung a leak the first day i got it running properly. I then dropped it back at the shop and when I returned the next day I found the trans was stuck in gear Id like to kick the ass of the person who sold me the trans but they are 800 miles away...

At the moment the most pressing issue is to remove the trans and either install the RS one with an LSD or take the WRX trans apart and fix it.

I also need to put the interior fully back together. It was at one point but some wiring issues made me remove it again.

Let me figure out what the heck I will do with the trans and Ill let you know.

dam.. so sweet

Looks like fun!

When I get time and money for a project car, I might try and do a full on swap for a street/track car. Something blazingly fast, but really subtle.

My definition of unusable power seems to be significantly higher than yours.

BAC5.2 wrote:My definition of unusable power seems to be significantly higher than yours.

Its about 2750 pounds with maybe 310hp? I doubt the car would ever see the track, combined with the craptastic southern California traffic I cant see that the owner could ever use full throttle.

Part of that belief comes from how fast you have to cycle through the gears. I bounced off the rev limiter in first many times the first night I was driving it even after I was aware of its speed. I could start out in second and still be faster than a good portion of cars on the street.

Once everything is stable I plan to reprogram the ECU for increased performance. Now I understand how insatiable ones appetite for power can be.

This is good practice for when I FINALLY get to build my Legacy. So many damn things have stopped it from happening and I am hell bent on getting it done.

what suspension is on the car?

AGX struts and perrin springs. I think the springs are a little too heavy for my tastes honestly. Im trying to convince him to go for stock STI springs.

I might have found a replacement ECU for 250. The 02+ turbo ecu and 05+ regular ECU are awesome+1. I'm no longer a fan of stand alone engine management or piggy backs.

Are you using the 6-speed or the short-geared RS 5-speed?

I mean, both are really short geared...

Actually neither. I'm trying to use a rebuilt 02 WRX trans. The RS one would be so damn short geared you could probably go 2-4-5 in normal driving. The RS tranny would be good for the 2 liter but the 2.5 is just way too quick to rev.

I say trying because the first day I got it running properly I noticed it would pop out of third randomly. The stress also blew a hole in the stock RS radiator so I drove it back to the shop. The temp never went up since I was paying attention. The next day I came to the shop and they said they almost ran it into a wall, even in reverse or neutral the car moves forward?

This sunday they'll let me use the lift and we will take the transmission apart. From there we will determine whats going on.

The sucky part is that I bought the trans from someone that a few of you may know of and according to him it was rebuilt by Subaru...


BTW can any of you verify that its possible for me, the end user, to overwrite the ECUTek garbage on an 04 STI ECU? I know a few years back there was a huge uproar over ECUTek taking everyones ECU hostage so that even Subaru couldn't reflash it!

Pop out of third? Like kick the shifter out?

Then in Reverse or neutral the car moves FORWARD? Can you select every gear?

That could be a few things. But it sounds like a broken or bent shift fork or more likely a destroyed 3rd gear synchro. The WRX is notorious for literally shattering 3rd gear synchros. If it grinds going into 3rd, it's definitely this (though it doesn't HAVE to grind going into 3rd).

I know several people who have had Subaru dealers rebuild transmissions and then have them fail very quickly down the road from an improper rebuild.

As for the ECUTek stuff, if you have the license you can just start hacking away with that. If not, you might not be able to.

Are you trying to ROM-Raid it?

That car looks VERY clean!

Good luck with the trans.

Pop out of third at random times but yes pop the shifter out. It didnt grind. The shifter felt like it never went all the way in.

I cannot select every gear. 1-2 is "locked out" and it seems to go into 3-5 and r but i think its still stuck in 1st.

I have no interest in using ECUTek. I don't like their business practices so my only intention is to erase the tune, lose the license return to a stock configuration. Yes I plan to rom raid / open ecu it.

Luckily I found a local tuner who can get rid of the ECUTek lock so I should be in good shape.

Probably stuck in 2nd then.

Likely from a broken or removed interlocker or, for some reason the detent balls were removed or fell out (it can happen during rebuilds by someone who has no idea what they are doing).

You never drove the car hard enough to have a problem. The shop tried to put it into reverse and the reverse idler pushed the 1/2 shift collar into 2nd gear. 1-2 is locked out, and you can select two gears at once (don't try and move it!). The car shouldn't move backwards either.

The 3rd problem might actually be broken tabs on the 3rd gear synchro. If they were going to rebuild the transmission to replace a 1st or 2nd synchro, they would never have touched the 3rd and 4th idlers and not have seen a broken synchro. Partial rebuilds are common. If the trans blew up, then it's likely that if there was no input shaft damage, the dealer just replaces the 1 and 2 idler gears and tossed it back together.

Bummer.

It will require tear-down though.

My knowledge of five speeds is limited compared to many of the forum members but from the exploded view of the trans and your description I can partially understand your description.

My current guess is that the trans lost second gear and the rebuild focused on 1-2 not realizing there was other damage.

Either way if anyone is interested I have found what might just be the best shop that has ever existed... They have quite impressive credentials and actually RACE their own swapped Subarus and VWs!

Yea, if you look at the exploded view, you can see that the collar for 1/2 has teeth on it. When you select Reverse, you are pulling an idler gear between the shift collar and the reverse gear that is machined on the input shaft. When reverse "grinds" it's because the input shaft or output shaft is still spinning. When reverse binds out, it's because things aren't lined up.

The shift rails are held from moving by three spring-ball assemblies. There is a ball on a spring, and is held in place by a cap that is threaded into the side of the transmission case. If you hop under the car and look, there are 3 like 8mm bolts that are staggered on the case. I want to say they are on the drivers side, but I honestly can't remember.

If you split the case and pull the shafts out and then remove the shift rails and try and clean the case, the balls can fall out. This is one possibility. They simply pulled the 1/2 shift rail and that ball fell out. They didn't notice it and the lack of tension on the 1/2 rail allowed it to overcome the interlocker. If it was very easy to move from neutral to first or second gear, that's likely what happened.

The interlocker is the reason that you can't put the shifter between 1st and 3rd and push the trans into both gears at once. However, the factory interlocker is lame. That's usually fine because synchros slow shifting down so much and provide so much tension on the rails that you can't shift between 2nd and 3rd fast enough to give the 1/2 rail enough momentum to carry it into 1st gear while you push the shifter into 3rd. With a dogbox, this is possible because there is no preload from the synchros, and the factory interlocker is absolutely passive (vs. the active type that we install with PPG dogboxes). IF the 1/2 rail had enough momentum, it COULD shift into 1st while you shift into 3rd. I've seen it two or three times.

When rebuilding, however, it's easy to be curious what's behind that little cover. Eliminating the factory interlocker is a bad bad idea. If it's been overcome, your in for more trouble. If you shift into Reverse, and the teeth on the idler don't match the teeth on the 1-2 collar, you can pull the transmission into 2nd gear. This will lock out 1 and 2 because the actual shift rail selector can no longer go there. The factory interlocker will prevent you from shifting into 4th, then half-shifting into 2nd and pushing both gears out at once. So you are stuck.

What you CAN do, with the trans still in the car, is remove the tail housing, pull out the center diff and the transfer gears, then remove the center housing. You should be able to see a few things here. First, you can inspect the factory interlocker. Second, you can push the second gear rail (the left one) back into neutral.

If the interlocker looks good, and you put it back into neutral, just reassemble and away you go. Unless something broke. Then you pull it back apart.

Also, check to make sure the springs and ball bearings are in those holes. You can CAREFULLY remove one of the bolts, then with a magnet extract the spring and then the ball. If all looks good, put it back together.

I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like that's what happened. If you want, I can give you some more specific steps to diagnose or you can take and send me pics and I can help walk you through it.

The RS transmission has already been swapped into the car with a new 4.11 rear LSD (stock was open).

I plan to diagnose the WRX trans on Sunday/Monday so any information you could provide specific to it would be excellent.

The more I think about it (rebuilt trans for so cheap) the more I feel that it wasn't rebuilt by Subaru but rather rebuilt by the guy I bought it from who happens to work at Subaru...

Entirely possible.

If the trans is out of the car right now, just yank off the back two sections and look at the shift rails. If one is pulled back and the others still move, then check the detent balls that I mentioned.

I know just about every intricate detail of the Subaru 5-speed.

I'd like to invite everyone here to read something

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79355

Specifically look at post #20 A very expensive mistake.

Today I started the car with its "new" permanent ECU. I had been borrowing one this whole time.

After connecting it the first time we had immobilizer problems. This is actually a normal occurrence so I sorted it out. Once it finally started the car ran like shit! Stumbled and hard to reach high RPM.

Come to find out the seller had a custom tune on the ECU and didnt tell us! Luckily we didn't drive it or bad things might have happened. I uploaded the newest firmware from subaru, which was actually newer than it had, and the car ran great.

I have to say that I have zero interest in aftermarket engine management anymore. I'd personally go through the trouble to wire up any frankenstein build with an 02 WRX ecu and tune it to run properly. The stock Subaru computers kick ass!

I'll kind of agree, but at the same time, you are seriously limited on how you can expand your current setup. I like speed density and it's simplicity. I like being able to add an IC sprayer or meth injection without adding more boxes under my dash.

The 32bit ECU's do a lot, I'll give you that, but they do become a problem at some point. It all depends on where you want to go with a car. I have plenty of friends who've ditched their UTEC's and open source tuning for a standalone just because they become a bottleneck at some point. Start mixing generations of parts, building crazy pipe-sets, running 8 injectors, three fuel pumps and on and on, and the factory EM doesn't do what you need.


But yes, for a factory arrangement, the 32bit ECU's work beautifully.