legacycentral bbs

Posted this over on NABISCO as well.

While this may be a strange thread title, and may not hold true for performance parts, I thought I'd share my past Saturday's frustration.

I spent about 9 hours replacing the steering rack boots, tie rods, & ball joints on my 1997 Impreza Outback Sport. The original reason for the work was due to a tear in a non-oem steering rack boot (was torn because it was too short and tore when wheel was turned all the way), and a non-oem ball joint that was clunking. Those items were replace by previous owner.

Anyway, I had to remove the lower a-arms to get the ball joints off. The first one came off with a puller. It messed the tip of the puller up though. The second wouldn't come off with the puller, and required beating on it with a sledge.

However the most time consuming part was the passenger tie rod. I had to cut it off, and then cut each side very carefully, so I could peel it off the steering rack rod. I started with a 4" cut off wheel, and finished with a dremel until I could barely see the steering rod's threads. Luckily I got everything off without damaging the steering rod.

Anyway....moral of the story....if the parts that were replaced by the previous owner were OEM, I probably wouldn't have needed to do any of the work.

Here's some pictures
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... balljoint/

You should clarify the post before noobs come to say "What about brake pads" "What about coolant" "What about tires" etc.

I wish I took pictures to compare the OEM water pump to the aftermarket unit. The impeller on the Subaru part was a nice cast piece with perfect flowing lines. The impeller on the aftermarket one was a piece of stamped metal with some fins bent into the sides.

Yeah, I guess you're right, I could add some additional clarification. I did post this in the suspension forum though. I would hope that anybody heeding my or anyone else's advice would use some common sense.

There is nothing better than an OEM Timing belt. The markings on them make installation soooo easy! I hated counting teeth ESPECIALLY on DOHC engines where you have to keep 4 things aligned, two of which are trying to spin and break your fingers off.

ciper wrote:You should clarify the post before noobs come to say "What about brake pads" "What about coolant" "What about tires" etc.

I wish I took pictures to compare the OEM water pump to the aftermarket unit. The impeller on the Subaru part was a nice cast piece with perfect flowing lines. The impeller on the aftermarket one was a piece of stamped metal with some fins bent into the sides.

what about coolant

such a blanket statement is hardly accurate.
There are quality parts out there that are not sold by Subaru. Unfortunately there are TONS of inferior parts out there and when someone is selling a car, that is typically what they buy.
Stick to quality parts and you'll be fine.

ciper wrote:I wish I took pictures to compare the OEM water pump to the aftermarket unit. The impeller on the Subaru part was a nice cast piece with perfect flowing lines. The impeller on the aftermarket one was a piece of stamped metal with some fins bent into the sides.

The impeller on the original pump from my 91 SS was cast, as you describe. I replaced it with a current Subaru OEM STi part (21111AA240), which had stamped and bent metal fins.

yeah, that 07 sti motor I was taking apart had a stamped impeller. An 02 waterpump I changed was cast and so was the replacement.

I don't know what subaru's deal is with cast vs. stamped impellers.

one of the most important things to remember when working on suspension components (or most anything else underneath a vehicle, but susp stuff is most times the worst), whether the car has been in the rust belt or a southern state, is to soak it in PB Blaster for a few days before you want to take it apart.

especially good to get some blaster in there and drive the car a while afterwards, to get some heat in it all. obviously a torch may come in handy for really stuck stuff also.

i've tried all the lube/penetrants out there, and PB Blaster is head and shoulders above the rest.

i'm off to the junkyard to hopefully get a good whole rack+ tie rods, shocks, so maybe the only "new" thing I'll have to put in is the balljoints.

What a pain in the ass. I've had to do a ton of extra work because the PO of one of my cars didn't care for it properly. The other car had all OEM parts and it has been great.

Aftermarket timing belts have the marks too. The quality of the rubber, I can't confirm nor deny. I've never had any issue with any timing belt job I've done, regardless of what type of belt was used.

Why did you have to remove the control arms to get the balljoints out? The only time I've removed control arms was to replace them. I've gotten many a stubborn balljoint out with a tie-rod fork and just hammering the hell out of it from the bottom - you're replacing it, so it doesn't matter if you screw up the threads.

The other reason I ask is because I have yet to successfully mount the control arms back onto the car with the hurricane bushing still bolted onto the arm. I have to have the hurricane bushing loose so I can wiggle the control arm around to get it into the crossmember and all that, and then I tighten everything down.

Back on topic: I agree that you basically get what you pay for. OEM stuff typically is made from better material and designed specifically for the application, while aftermarket stuff uses cheap materials and are reverse-engineered to fit many different vehicles.

DerFahrer wrote:Why did you have to remove the control arms to get the balljoints out? The only time I've removed control arms was to replace them. I've gotten many a stubborn balljoint out with a tie-rod fork and just hammering the hell out of it from the bottom - you're replacing it, so it doesn't matter if you screw up the threads.

The other reason I ask is because I have yet to successfully mount the control arms back onto the car with the hurricane bushing still bolted onto the arm. I have to have the hurricane bushing loose so I can wiggle the control arm around to get it into the crossmember and all that, and then I tighten everything down.

Beating on a tie-rod fork wasn't going to get these ball joints out. I didn't want to mess with them in the car. I was looking for the easiest route....taking the a-arm out was the easiest.

Are you talking about the rear a-arm bushing? When you're going to install the a-arm, you just push the spindle out of the way so you can move the a-arm up enough to get everything lined up and bolted down. Then when it's bolted down you just push the a-arm back down and fit the ball joint.

On some I'll toatlly agree with you. Like radiator hoses. I've seen soooo many aftermarket silicone hoses like Perrin's crap leak, and be impossible to get to seal. OEM stuff was the best.

All aftermarket thermostats are junk. I'll never buy anything but a Subaru unit again.


I could go on and on.

Electronic parts - starters and alternators. Do not buy aftermarket trash, and it's almost all trash, and not worth trying to find the one that might not be IMO. If your starter or alternator dies, either suck it up and buy the OEM part or get a used OEM at a junk yard - the aggravation and possible fried battery or tow expense are not worth the initial savings.

PB Blaster is best of the consumer products, but Zep 45 is the absolute best I've seen if you can find it (check marine places).

Legacy777 wrote:Are you talking about the rear a-arm bushing? When you're going to install the a-arm, you just push the spindle out of the way so you can move the a-arm up enough to get everything lined up and bolted down. Then when it's bolted down you just push the a-arm back down and fit the ball joint.

We call them hurricane bushings around the shop coz of their shape. Or maybe it's because we're in FL

Regardless, it's possible that my car's frame might be slightly tweaked, as hard as that is to admit to myself, but if I have a complete assembled control arm and have the front bushing lined up in the crossmember, I will not be able to line up the holes in the hurricane bushing to the holes in the frame... even though the arm just came from there.

In fact, the last time I tried to do it, I cross-threaded one of the bolts. You can imagine how pissed I was. Anyway, I managed to rethread the hole in the frame and then put a new control arm on with a new, and loose, hurricane bushing. I threaded the bolts in very loosely and had the hurricane bushing just sitting there, then worked the control arm into the crossmember and the hurricane bushing at the same time. Then once everything was in place, I tightened everything down.

Back on-topic, I replaced my original alternator with an aftermarket one from who-knows-where (a mechanic at my old Toyota dealer recommended the independent seller), and that died within two years. I have an Advance one in the car now, and... knocking on wood VERY LOUDLY... have not had any problems with it.

The issue with aftermarket thermostats is that they don't open at the right time. Either too early, not allowing the engine to warm up properly, or worse, too late and allow it to overheat.

With the thermostats, you can see the difference in quality just looking at them - the OEM looks military-spec while the aftermarkets look like cheap stamped metal. I can see why people would be tempted to save money on the big-ticket items (even though they're still cheaper than many other OEMs), but there's no sense at all in trying to save a couple dollars buying aftermarket thermostat.

Its funny the topic ended up on thermostats. I just replied to another thread (remove oil pan in car) about getting an OEM thermostat and I hadn't read this thread yet.

Yup....thermostat was my first encounter with my legacy on using OEM parts. The aftermarket thermostat just caused tons of problems......and that was back in 95 or 96 I believe.

I will agree to this TOPIC 100 MILLION %!!! OEM #1


thats my 2cents and if i have to add another 2cents to get that OEM Subaru product (sti) then here you go.

I wanna throw in two cents too.....+100 to thermostats. don't forget the cap. also, never, never, never.......did I say never yet? never use duralast brake pads. shitload of dust, and pedal feels like shit. Also if you don't have "Fuji-bond" go get it now. SEAL THE WORLD!!!!!

Bump for an old thread.

Here's a $1000 argument for using OEM parts.

Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midhrYaoAzU

That's a turbo with 20 miles on it.

Legacy 2.5GT, VF40 turbo. Customer comes in, complains the turbo is making noise. We replace the turbo under warranty. Tech takes the car out for a road test, and by the time he gets back, the brand-new turbo is making the same noise.

We're all puzzled about it, but the tech decides to make a device to measure oil pressure at the turbo feed line. Know what it read? ZERO PSI. That's right. The turbo was essentially getting a trickle of oil.

So, on a hunch, the tech replaces the no-name aftermarket oil filter with an OEM Subaru filter, and the oil pressure at the feed line jumps to 45 psi.

Perhaps the aftermarket filter had a relief valve or something that cut off pressure past a certain point and sent it back to the pan or something.

If that isn't an argument for using OEM parts, I don't know what is.

I've seen all kinds of destroyed turbos come through, but not like that. Pay attention in the video; I'm actually grabbing the turbo shaft and pulling it a half-inch towards me, not just moving it around in a circle.

So did it destroy the new turbo as well?

Well, that was a new turbo in the video. The original blew up, the tech put this turbo on, it blew up, he figured out the oil filter problem, then put another new turbo on with the OEM filter.

So it's all good now.

The confusion after this new one blew up included a visit from the regional Subaru rep. He was pissed about this one, but was really happy when the tech figured out the problem. It took a bit of ingenuity on his part, as he said he essentially built the device to check the oil pressure at the turbo feed line.

What about the engine? I'm sure the engine probably will have issues later in it's life because of this.

had problems with 3 different crank seals...and then replaced with an oem and no leaks yet