legacycentral bbs

Well I'm in the market for a new ride, gotta pick it up in the next 2 weeks, and I figured that I'd try to get some opinions.

So far I've driven a lot of vehicles, but the two that really stick out are the Honda Civic Si and the Mazdaspeed 3. I guess the kicker is that I haven't driven an 08 WRX yet, mostly because the local Subaru dealer in Oklahoma (there are 2 in this entire god forsaken state) is pretty weak sauce.

Obviously the criteria is mostly a balance of performance, fuel economy and practicality as I need it to help me commute 1800 miles back to school in a month.

So well, opinions, vote in the poll if you're too lazy, oh and if you want to buy a very used 93 BJ in Winestone in Oklahoma make an offer.

Are you looking to buy a brand new car, or used car?

How much are you looking to spend?

Those should be two key questions you need to ask yourself. Once you have that, and a set price, don't even bother looking at any vehicles that don't fit that price range.

You can get a 1 or 2 year old vehicle in great shape for quite a bit less then brand new costs, so it's a way to cut your costs and/or get more car for your money.

Next you need to figure out which three of the things you mentioned, performance, fuel economy, & practicality is the most important feature. Very rarely will get all three, usually you'll need to focus on one or two of the three, and the third will be a small sacrifice to what you really want.

I say get a 05 Legacy GT. look around, you'll see. they are relatively cheap now. go for base, not limited. who needs leather, and a $3000 premium. no way.

If you were getting the Mazda as a commuter, I wouldn't bother with the speed version as the mileage, shifting, and ride isn't as good as the cheaper regular version. I believe the new ones all have the structural reinforcements of the speed and that was the biggest improvement (that and the rock hard seats on the standard car suck ass) they could make to it for a short-term commuter. However, I think they still offer a sunroof on the regular model.

That said - there are no cars built like an old Subaru. I was on the verge of calling a junk yard to haul the 3 away last weekend and the only thing that stopped me is that I still owe money on it. Hell, if the wagon ran, I might have done it anyway. Why? A front strut failed with less than 70k miles. Not much to most people, but that marks it as a POS to an old Subaru owner. And it wasn't so much the failure as how unsafe the car was with it - it dangerously wandered everywhere like perpetual Saab Viggen torque steer and the wheel felt like it was loose and about to fall off, like two long-bad tie rods and a ball joint. Ate what was left of my front tire quickly as well. Then there was trying to replace it. There are no fucking aftermarket parts for these fucking cars - I might as well own a Lamborghini. I ordered KYB GR2s from Tire rack with a 2 week lead time to the end of July (during which I drove the car an absolute minimum and slowly) only to be told the day before they were supposedly available that they wouldn't be out, maybe, until the end of August. KYBs website doesn't even list the application. So I had to cancel and go to the fucking dealer for a new strut. Took me the entire weekend and I destroyed the balljoint boot doing it. There's no room for a spring compressor in the strut tower, the spring is stiff as hell, it has no suspension travel, and it's virtually impossible to compress the spring properly. I had to pull some less than safe shit with the compressors to get it out. The strut inserts into the knuckle, not bolted to the side like in an intelligent car, and requires some serious compression distance to get it out. Getting it back in was impossible without popping off the control arm as it had to be set into the knuckle first before being put back into the tower. The only way to get the balljoint out was a pickle fork and there you go - ripped boot, soon dead balljoint. I then had to have my brother-in-law press down on the control arm while I lifted and pushed on the knuckle and aimed the balljoint to line up into the knuckle so that I could get everything together.

Took me the entire weekend also fighting the occasional rain where it would've been a 30 min. job in a Subaru, a job I wouldn't have had to perform for another 30k miles at least.

I don't know if new Subarus are as good as the old, but I doubt it and damn they're ugly. Except the Legacy - it still looks good.

As for the Honda Si, I smoked one in acceleration to 110 and cornering with my 3 with shot tires and the blown out strut before it got intolerably bad.

Seriously, if I had known better and realized I wouldn't have the 50k mile/yr job for long I'd have bought another Legacy beater, fixed the wagon, then bought an '84 coupe, swapped in an EJ22, and sold the beater.

Asking on a forum is just going to get you nowhere. Drive them all. Even ones that are not on your list. Drive everything on the lot. The more cars you test drive, the more you'll figure out what you really want.

I say look used or wait for the '09 WRX. Tons of improvements to compete with the new midrange Lancer. I don't think you could land one in two weeks, most likely have to wait till September.

Good luck!

Josh (and others): I'm looking for a new car for warranty concerns. As much as I'd like to buy a used LGT or WRX or something I'm not going to take the chance that some idiot dropped the clutch at every red light and abused it.

Price is around 20 to 25k, with emphasis placed on models I can get good financing deals on. I'll accept a compromise on performance for fuel economy but the practicality point means it must carry my ass and all my stuff to college and back.

Steve, I'm not really commuting per say, just driving 1800 miles about 6 times a year (at current) to and from school with my shit. The Speed3 shifted well enough and rode well on some of the lesser roads around here and was very smooth on the highway. However, I replaced the STOCK struts on my wagon at 270k, that's 200k more than your Mazda so I think the reliability compared to Subaru will count against the 3.

Phyrra, I've been out and driving, I'm really using the forum to get some opinions and experiences (like Steve's) and hoping that someone will point out if I've overlooked a vehicle, like the LGT. I'll try to find an LGT but the local dealer, as I said, blows. It's gotta happen in the next 2 weeks and maybe I can get a better deal on an 08 WRX in light of the 09's coming out and offering more than the 08.

The two week deadline is sadly pretty serious as I gotta get the car before Sept in order to go back to school.

The Mazda3 was the best of what was available in late '05 (just before the current Civic, but that's got its pros and cons as well), but I felt there was nothing that was as good as my wagon. Even with 200k miles more than the Mazda, I feel the wagon's a more solid car as well as its other advantages. I bought the Mazda because I needed a car for my job at the time that would not be a problem (and the wagon needed some work done and was reliable, but getting too old to stake the money I was making at the time on). I never expected to love it, I just wanted something cheap that I could stand to drive, could fit some stuff in back, and got decent mileage.

The Scion TC I drove was TERRIBLE. You didn't list it, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

My brother-in-law's new Civic Hybrid is fun to drive in a perverse way and gets in the high 40's. They don't come with a man's transmission, though and the handling is tolerably communicative, but weak.

There really isn't much to choose from today. I want a small wagon, basically a new original Legacy wagon with better aerodynamics, headlights, and direct injection. I can't even find a car with that size and bodystyle, never mind the rest. They're all sedans (a pointless bodystyle to me and with a bizarre evolutionary path), hatchbacks, or jacked up hatchbacks/mini-SUVs (I don't care what the fucking retards in marketing call this class of vehicle).

My friend's looking for a car as well, something along the same lines as what I want and is stumped. He's thinking of the Matrix because he doesn't want to buy the same car as me since we'd look gay if we arrived at the same place driving our respective cars. Hopefully, I won't have this Mazda too much longer.

You know one of the biggest beefs I have with new cars is all the raked rear ends. I can't see shit out of them. Horrible poor visibility....like we need to give bad drivers another opportunity fo screw up.

Anyway, I have always thought subarus have pretty good visibility. The new ones do, much more then other new cars.

New Honda Civic Si -- Haven't driven it, but your insurance is going to be through the roof on ANY Civic. The coupe looks okay, but I think the sedan is hideous. The salesman at the Honda dealer wanted me to try a Civic, but the new one is just too weird for me... and I used to own an XT.

Mazdaspeed3 -- a lot of power. More power than the 08 WRX, that's for sure. Too much power for a FWD. Torque steers like crazy. Intercooler design is absolutely retarded... at least the Subaru TMIC has room for the air to escape above the transmission. 3s seem to have decent reliability so far, although there are Ford electronics scattered throughout the car. You might be replacing things like ignition coils and emissions solenoids after a few years.

08 WRX -- a decent performing vehicle. Not as powerful as the MS3, but better overall performer. I still think it's too soft and boring. Like a Toyota Corolla with a turbo. 08 STi is more fun, but has WAY too much turbo lag. It's possible that I'm jaded, but I'm not the only one with that opinion.

Scion tC, by the way, a while ago, I had two ricers fly by me in a lowered tC, and when I caught up with them at the traffic light, I asked the driver if his girlfriend knew he was driving her car like that, and left. Another snoozemobile if you ask me. It has decent power, but it's a smaller Camry Solara. No fun.

Although by the cars you've posted, I'm sure it's not what you're looking for, I still really like my Honda Fit. It's one of the only new cars that I think is actually fun to drive (save for the pussy-ass clutch), can get almost 40mpg, and has been 100% trouble free for its first 10k miles. Not one warranty claim. My CD player was acting goofy for a bit, but it seems to have rectified itself. Thieves don't pay near as much attention to it as the Civic (except for the wheels). Also, it is one of the few new cars I've seen that has an Aux jack, so you can plug your iPod in with just a headphone wire. No pricey adapters or pulling the head unit out to install them.

I'd say take a look at the Saturn Astra too, as I think it's a nice car and it really is an Opel with Saturn badging. But it's RIDICULOUSLY overpriced. Thus, they aren't selling. Like, at all. That's straight from the guy at the Saturn dealer down the street.

Forgot about the Astra - good call. Yeah, that whole dollar vs. Euro thing has killed that. My friend was interested in that as he loved the Opel version he drove in Europe, but the price and mileage/performance didn't add up. It's really too bad as the 3-door's not bad looking and I think the Aura is the classiest looking car in it's class (though I suppose there isn't much competition).

We took a tC out and the dealer just handed us the keys. We handed that car its ass. But what a POS - the interior feels like a cheap home stereo and the handling is an understeering mess. Slower than the regular Mazda3 as well.

Too bad the hybrid Fit isn't out yet - the likely mileage alone might make it worth a drive and for a small car, there's some pretty clever packaging.

Most cars have the mp3 player cord now, but the ipod specific one with that plugs into the bottom and charges the player is the harder one to find. I've had no problem with the radio transceiver once I unscrewed my radio antennae.

I didn't think the Speed3 torque steered that bad at all and I drove over some old New England roads and stomped it with the wheel turned all the way right from a stop. Sure, you have to pull the wheel back in line with a little more force, but I didn't find it trying to drive off the road or sniffing out every rut like a hound dog or a regular Mazda3 with a bad strut.

Man, I swear more and more every day I hate cars. Except for old Subarus, the Aptera, and my own designs. They're all anesthetized, heavy, under-built, over-priced dinosaurs with pointlessly bad aerodynamics. Something like Aston Martin I can see - the cars are fucking gorgeous so, yeah, fuck some aerodynamic efficiency, but all the hideous messes out there? At least make the thing aerodynamically sound. Even the damn Prius isn't all that great. Anyway, I'm getting way off the subject as usual.

VW GTi...


I got to drive a friend's...and I was VERY impressed...definitely not like the old cars

If you are willing to consider the Astra, the Cobalt SS is the same basic car with horrible looks, but a lot of power. It's even getting decent magazine reviews. The SS package in anAstra would kick ass. (till it breaks (GM jaded))

How much does that new Volvo coupe ( C3?) go for? Same basic chassis as the Mazda3/Euro Focus.

555BCTurbo wrote:VW GTi...
I got to drive a friend's...and I was VERY impressed...definitely not like the old cars

Just make friends with the service manager, you'll be seeing a lot of him.

Have you considered the Forester? THe XT is a hoot to drive, but new ones are a little spendy.

evolutionmovement wrote: The Scion TC I drove was TERRIBLE. You didn't list it, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

DerFahrer wrote: Scion tC, by the way, a while ago, I had two ricers fly by me in a lowered tC, and when I caught up with them at the traffic light, I asked the driver if his girlfriend knew he was driving her car like that, and left.

The tC was on my shitlist from the get go. All of the people I know who own them are douchebags. Seriously. Tonight I was leaving the theater at the mall and some 'thugs' rolled by on a dropped tC blastin gangster rap and then pulled into a parking spot. Then they rolled the airdam over a curb. Done deal

evolutionmovement wrote: My brother-in-law's new Civic Hybrid is fun to drive in a perverse way and gets in the high 40's. They don't come with a man's transmission, though and the handling is tolerably communicative, but weak.

DerFahrer wrote:New Honda Civic Si -- Haven't driven it, but your insurance is going to be through the roof on ANY Civic. The coupe looks okay, but I think the sedan is hideous.

I actually really liked the Si Sedan, I don't think I could ever seriously drive a hybrid though. The insurance part scares me, but the 4 door should help a bit.

DerFahrer wrote: Mazdaspeed3 -- a lot of power. More power than the 08 WRX, that's for sure. Too much power for a FWD. Torque steers like crazy. Intercooler design is absolutely retarded... ... 3s seem to have decent reliability so far, although there are Ford electronics scattered throughout the car....

Although Steve's experience is just one man's, the idea of Ford parts in that car kinda scares me. I mean, domestic rides these days perturb me. I drove everything in a Ford dealer and walked away wishing I had spent my time trimming my toenails or something mundane. I digress, I have a slight fear of the classic stereotype of unreliable domestic vehicles.

DerFahrer wrote: 08 WRX -- a decent performing vehicle. Not as powerful as the MS3, but better overall performer. I still think it's too soft and boring. Like a Toyota Corolla with a turbo.

I think, if it's still anything like the last WRX I drove ('04 2.0 sedan, 5MT) it'll be enjoyable enough. The looks kinda put me off but the "sport grille" makes things look better.

DerFahrer wrote: 08 STi is more fun, but has WAY too much turbo lag. It's possible that I'm jaded, but I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I wish man, a bit more than I can afford. And that's juts the pricetag, insurance and gas will rip my balls off.

DerFahrer wrote: Although by the cars you've posted, I'm sure it's not what you're looking for, I still really like my Honda Fit.

Too small but damn man try finding one on a dealer lot, everyone really likes their Honda Fit.

DerFahrer wrote: I'd say take a look at the Saturn Astra too, as I think it's a nice car and it really is an Opel with Saturn badging.

I'll take a look, Saturn seems more appealing, and I saw a couple of Astras in the Saturn dealer's lot. There's a huge automall around here, no Subaru dealer there though.

evolutionmovement wrote: There really isn't much to choose from today. I want a small wagon, basically a new original Legacy wagon with better aerodynamics, headlights, and direct injection.... ...(I don't care what the fucking retards in marketing call this class of vehicle).

Amen brother. I'm not really looking for a "crossover" either. Either take the plunge and be irresponsable and hide your insecurities in an SUV or drive a wagon and make sense. The Forester may not be on my list because of the making it more like the mass market crossover deal, it seems kinda lame now.

555BCTurbo wrote:VW GTi...

Will check it out tomorrow.

PhyrraM wrote: How much does that new Volvo coupe ( C3?) go for? Same basic chassis as the Mazda3/Euro Focus.

Oh and as for the Volvo C30, it's a bit too expensive and a bit too 2 door, I think I need a 4 door simply for those times when I gotta drag 3 other people around/lots of stuff.

The Astra is not the Cobalt - it's a Euro platform car. And the Cobalt is a POS.

The Volvo C30 is an overpriced Mazda3, albeit a nicer looking one.

Drove the GTI, with the DSG though. It wasn't anything really to write home about, nice flat torque curve but I think it costs a lot more than I want to spend considering what I'm getting from it. They're getting a 4 door in at the local dealership so I'll check that out. I think I'd rather spend the 28 grand on a LGT.

And there's still the VW more than questionable reliability and as far as working on them - the Mazda would be a lawn mower in comparison. The only product worth the risk would be the R8 - son of a bitch, I thought it was oddly proportioned in pictures, but in person that car is sick and completely original. It makes every other car like that look old and derivative. Even more derivative than most of them are.

I've been reading mixed reports, but it seems like the Astra was scheduled to be based on the Delta (Cobalt) platform in 2004. It seems that Opel nixxed that plan and went for a refreshing of the older Astra instead. A few mags/reviews are sticking with the Delta based Astra report, but I think they are wrong.

So, I stand corrected.

Still, the Cobalt SS IS getting good reviews, but it still looks like ass and has a GM stamp on it. So does the Astra for that matter (GM product, not ass).

a friend is selling me his 2006 prius next year when he gets a new one.

it has everything including stability control and drives amazing on ice and snow.

it averages 50 mpg.

subaru needs a hybrid soon.

No R8, sorry Steve.
I guess I need to see the Astra in person, but I don't have high hopes for it simply as lacking the performance and enjoyability of my other options.
I'm not considering the Cobalt SS at all. Two fewer doors than I want just to start.
Prius would be good for sneakin' up on mother****ers (Weeds reference) but not really going to give me any of the enjoyment. The thing has drums in the rear, I haven't driven a vehicle with drums since I was driving my long gone '79 Bronco.

So tomorrow I'll try to check out the WRX and LGT before work and maybe the Astra too if I have time.

The Saturn Ion was the same as the Cobalt. The Astra really truly is an Opel Astra with Saturn badging and a little USDM castration. It shares nothing with the Cobalt.

I've heard lots of good reviews on the new GTI, but it still has German electronics. Nuff said.

The Volvo C30 indeed shares its platform with the Volvo S40, Mazda 3, and Ford Focus. That last part ruined it for me.

Don't let the Fit's outside appearance deceive you. It's quite roomy inside. I've put my bike in it before, although it's a tight squeeze. It's not nearly as powerful as any of the other cars we're discussing, but it's not really slow either. Besides, I don't really care about all that, especially with $4-a-gallon gas.

But yeah, as you said, their resale value has gone up 10% in the past 3 months for that same reason.

DerFahrer wrote: The Volvo C30 indeed shares its platform with the Volvo S40, Mazda 3, and Ford Focus. That last part ruined it for me.

The Euro Focus.

The North American Focus is the same chassis introduced in '00.

The Euro Focus, Mazda 3 and the Volvos are the newest version introduced about '05.

What about a Versa, or a Yaris? Or were you looking for a more traditional 'compact' size (now mid-size, thanks to ever-expanding americans), as opposed to sub-compact?

ok I wasn't considering the Fit in the first place but I do see the merit, I just think "sub-compact" is too compact for me, I hate to break it to you beatersubi but the Civic is the same size in Japan as it is in the US so I'm not going to totally write the expansion off to ever expanding Americans

drove 08 WRX today, really impressed, way more refined than the 05 (last one I drove)

I can probably get a good deal on the thing with the 09's coming out and 0.0% financing right now makes me quite happy

so I think I'm between the Si and the WRX right now, FWD vs AWD, 2.0 VTEC vs 2.5 turbo, sedan vs wagon...

corsair wrote:
so I think I'm between the Si and the WRX right now, FWD vs AWD, 2.0 VTEC vs 2.5 turbo, sedan vs wagon...

Easy choice than huh?